PGF Dallas 7/9/2011

[Joe]

Well, at least around here, if you had a tournament consisting of the ASA qualified teams vs. the PGF qualified teams the ASA qualified teams would win hands down

???

Tell us how you came up with that Einstein...

[MavFan]

Well, at least around here, if you had a tournament consisting of the ASA qualified teams vs. the PGF qualified teams the ASA qualified teams would win hands down

???

Tell us how you came up with that Einstein...

I would totally agree that a tournament of QUALIFIED ASA teams and QUALIFIED PGF teams, the ASA teams would be stronger. But if you are including the awarded teams, then PGF would get the nod.

I don't get the feeling that the teams in Texas are as gung ho PGF as the teams in California appear to be.

In my opinion, the two ASA qualifiers for Region 7 have had stronger fields than the two PGF qualifiers in Texas. I was surprised/ disappointed, whichever that the PGF qualifiers didn't attract more teams from around the south and south central.

[TexasYellowBall]

Glory Shelton and helpers ran a solid tournament. The umpires were umpires with their usual ups and downs. The bracket set up was a little crazy,but thats the way it goes sometimes. No water in the dugout showed signs of money hoarding and that was a little sad.

With PGF awarding spots, it will never really be a real true national championship. The awarded teams did not have to battle 105 heat, exhausted pitchers and players. They only had to open an email to get the invite. Until everyone has to play to get in, the PGF is just a pure money making tournament.

ASA is still number 1 and it does not matter what organization claims to be better. Go ask, AFA, IFA, NSA, USSSA, USFA, triple crown, and the list goes on and on.....ASA still remains the leader.

Congrats to the winners, they were the best teams at the tournament and deserved the berths.

[Joe]

ASA is still number 1...

At what?

*Turning their back on their customers?

*Not listening to their customers?

*Delivering a half-assed product?

*Playing politics (see Midland)?

*Not looking after the health and well-being of the players (see Midland in AUGUST)

* "Money Hoarding"

Uhmmmm....need more?

[MavFan]

Glory Shelton and helpers ran a solid tournament. The umpires were umpires with their usual ups and downs. The bracket set up was a little crazy,but thats the way it goes sometimes. No water in the dugout showed signs of money hoarding and that was a little sad. I disagree, money hoarding would be if they didn't allow coolers and forced you to pay $2.25 for a bottle of water, and if they charged an entry fee. Neither of which happened.

With PGF awarding spots, it will never really be a real true national championship. The awarded teams did not have to battle 105 heat, exhausted pitchers and players. They only had to open an email to get the invite. Until everyone has to play to get in, the PGF is just a pure money making tournament. Note: it is usually very hot in Texas in July. The teams that were awarded berths from New Jersey or Florida or California, did not have to necessarily play in 105 degree heat either. For that matter, neither did the teams that qualified in Houston n early June. That does not make them any less worthy. As for the true national champion, I think awarded spots has less to do with a true national champion then location and timing do. I suspect you will see more Texas teams attempting to qualify for ASA (Oklahoma) then you do PGF (if it stays in California.) But we will find that out next year when the awarded spots are no longer.

ASA is still number 1 and it does not matter what organization claims to be better. Go ask, AFA, IFA, NSA, USSSA, USFA, triple crown, and the list goes on and on.....ASA still remains the leader. Mute point, all of those other organizations did not have the support of top programs from around the country. Those organizations are regional at best. PGF has a leg up on those organizations from a relevance point of view.

Congrats to the winners, they were the best teams at the tournament and deserved the berths.

I agree

[hit4power]

Tell us how you came up with that Einstein...

I would totally agree that a tournament of QUALIFIED ASA teams and QUALIFIED PGF teams, the ASA teams would be stronger. But if you are including the awarded teams, then PGF would get the nod.

I agree, and was specific in mentioning qualified teams in my OP

Here's the lists as I understand them - everyone can have their say. And for the record, no disrespect intended to any team that qualified in either PGF or ASA, they are all strong teams that have earned those berths

PGF Qualified Teams from Texas: Rapid Fire, Kaos, Mizuno Impulse Gold, Bombers, Sudden Impact (others who qualified include New Orleans DeJaVu, and Tulsa Eagles).

To MavFan's point: the PGF invited teams would add Impact, Eclipse, Magic, Storm, and Glory

ASA Qualified Teams from Texas: Sudden Impact, Glory Adkins, Houston Power, FW Batbusters, RR Blaze, Lethal Weapon, and Texas Fusion.
Others who qualified in College Station, Dallas or B-R are: Georgia Impact, New Orleans Voodoo, Okla Athletics, and Huntsville (AL) Sparks.

To my point - with the exception of Sudden Impact, as far as I know, none of the PGF qualified teams are ASA qualified, but all of them entered at least one ASA qualifier.

Now that I look at the list, what a great tournament it would be if it ever happened - sort of like the Tour Championship tourney on the PGA - you have to win something on the regular tour to get in.

[DoingWork]

A couple of questions and comments on the ASA/PGF debate:
1. Have you or your daughter ever played/coached at a Premier nationals?
2. Have you or your daughter ever played/coached at an ASA Gold nationals?
3. Have you or your daughter ever played/coached for one of the major Cali teams?

If you only answered yes to question #2 you have no idea what you are taking about and all of your arguments for/against either ASA or PGF should be void.

I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but California/Arizona (a good majority of those zona kids end up "taking their talents to Cali" in the later part of their travel ball career) consistently produces the best talent in the country, I know I'm going to get 1000 names thrown at me of highly successful kids that aren't from Cail/Zona but talk to a top 25 college coach and they will tell you they love Cali kids.

Just sayin.... I'm gonna do what the Californians are doing if I'm trying to get my kid to the highest level.

PS: ASA shafted the young ladies you and your daughter have idolized for so many years. Just an emotional point to consider in your argument.

[MavFan]

Impact Gold is also a qualified ASA team, as well as an invited PGF team. Although it should be noted, that finishing second last year would have automatically qualified them for the following year, if the 2012 rules were in effect in 2011.

Doing work - not sure I understand your point. My point is that, in Texas and other parts of the country, there does not appear to be the love affair with PGF that there appears to be in So Cal. As evident by the lack of numbers in the qualifiers around the country.

[Battle]

A couple of questions and comments on the ASA/PGF debate:
1. Have you or your daughter ever played/coached at a Premier nationals? No. How many have they had?
2. Have you or your daughter ever played/coached at an ASA Gold nationals?No. DD is not old enough yet.
3. Have you or your daughter ever played/coached for one of the major Cali teams?No. We live in Texas and have no desire to move to Cali.

If you only answered yes to question #2 you have no idea what you are taking about and all of your arguments for/against either ASA or PGF should be void.

Why should that void anything? You have only proven that PGF has not proven anything yet. What they are doing in the next 3 years is what will matter. For now, ASA is still "The" national and PGF is just the best "Western" national. When I see PGF holding nationals in
Florida then I might change my mind but for now, it is what it is.

[Battle]

Wouldn't the teams playing in a tournament determine the "best nationals" instead of the location of the tournament?

That's a good point. The problem with that is, you don't know for a fact who the best teams are because they will not all play each other this year in the same tourn. You can only presume.

Does holding nationals in the middle of nowhere make it a better tournament to attend?

Does holding nationals not in the middle of nowhere make it a better tourn? If it does, USFA should look pretty good to you.