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1 year suspension for illegal bats

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by ontheblack » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:00 pm

I also observed at DII tournament this weekend and watched the umpiring crew check the bats of every team prior to their first game of the day all three days of the tournament.


Thats the equivalent of making me go through the airport metal detector prior to the first flight, but not the return trip.
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by MTR » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:36 pm

softballrulznut wrote:I also observed at DII tournament this weekend and watched the umpiring crew check the bats of every team prior to their first game of the day all three days of the tournament.


That should be a standard practice at every game whether NCAA, NFHS, 10U friendly.

I don't know why there seems to be so much concern over what has been a rule for a while. All they are really talking about is threatening the coach and player which, IMO, just will not happen.

Why do you think they only tested the bats in OKC last year after the tournament, but not before? That way there was always the out that the bats went out of spec during the tournament, so there was no need to take action against any player or team.

BTW, a manufacturer can tell if their bat has been rolled and I know you all want to hear about the paper test ;)
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by AlwaysImprove » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:40 pm

OK, I will bite. I have seen umpires rubbing paper on bats, but never really understood what they are looking for with the paper.
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by 3Bsnag » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:01 pm

Hot off the presses:

NCAA Releases Division I Bat Testing Penalties
02/23/11 - Special Release
INDIANAPOLIS, Ind. - The NCAA has released penalties for use of an illegal bat during Division I postseason competition.

The Division I Softball Committee proposed the penalties to the NCAA Division I Championships/Sports Management Cabinet in February and the following was approved:

Institutions that allow a bat that (a) has not undergone a pre-competition postseason Barrel Compression Test (BCT); (b) has not passed the BCT; or (c) was not on the most current 2011 NCAA Approved Softball Bat List, into a game during the NCAA postseason (regional, super regional or Women’s College World Series) will face the following penalties:

First offense: Public reprimand of the head coach, monetary fine ($600) and loss of bat.

Second offense: Head coach receives multigame suspension (three games) served immediately after notification and which can be carried over to the following year’s postseason competition. In the event a coach with a suspension is employed by a different institution the following year, the suspension will be applied at the institution (i.e., suspension “follows” the coach).

All bats anticipated to be used during each round of the NCAA Division I postseason will be tested on site immediately prior to the round (no limit on the number of bats a team may have tested). In addition, umpires will evaluate bats to be sure the model is on the 2011 NCAA Approved Softball Bat List and that the bats are suitable for play (no cracks, rattles, etc.).

NCAA softball rules indicate that head coaches are responsible for the equipment used in a contest, and the NCAA encourages coaches to (a) take every opportunity to test bats during the regular season; (b) make sure all bats to be used during postseason competition are tested during postseason testing; and (c) only use bats that are on the most current 2011 NCAA Approved Softball Bat List.

To see the NCAA memorandum and Illegal Bat Penalties Q&A that was sent to Division I coaches and administrators, click here.
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by SoCalASABlue » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:07 pm

AlwaysImprove wrote:OK, I will bite. I have seen umpires rubbing paper on bats, but never really understood what they are looking for with the paper.


You can feel the uneven ridges on a rolled bat by turning the bat with a piece of paper loosely wrapped around it. Instructors did this at an umpire clinic I attended last year to show what a rolled bat can feel like - there was a distinct difference between a "legal" off the shelf bat and the rolled bat they brought with them.
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by ontheblack » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:31 pm

SoCalASABlue wrote:
AlwaysImprove wrote:OK, I will bite. I have seen umpires rubbing paper on bats, but never really understood what they are looking for with the paper.


You can feel the uneven ridges on a rolled bat by turning the bat with a piece of paper loosely wrapped around it. Instructors did this at an umpire clinic I attended last year to show what a rolled bat can feel like - there was a distinct difference between a "legal" off the shelf bat and the rolled bat they brought with them.


The DIYs are easy to spot with the paper test, especially the bats where dad beat it with a mallet. The high end rolling machines though are much better at applying even pressure. Tbug could probably spot one, but the average blue (no disrepect intended, SoCalASA) wouldnt be able to tell.
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by AlwaysImprove » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:05 pm

I agree. I have held a bat that had been rolled, and rubbed paper on it, and you could not detect anything. I suspect you are only catching poorly modified bats with the paper test and external visual inspection. As ontheblack pointed out, having the right equipment can make a much more professional job of it. Also having someone that knows what they are doing.

Want to see for yourself? Goto ebay, watch for ads for bat rolling. For instance this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Bat-Rolling-Service-25-SALE-Rolled-Softball-Composite-/140334791678?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ac9afbfe
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by ontheblack » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:32 pm

That machine is the DIYer model. More than a few asshats wanting little Suzy to jack a few over the fence have spent $20 to delaminate a perfectly good $300 bat. The machines that produce results that are harder to detect run $400-500 and compress the entire sweet spot evenly. Those are the ones that are usually only caught with the BCT.

Tumblebug is right though. The resin over composite is a faulty concept if you are looking for uniform results over the life of a bat. His challenge is to design something where they cant do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR48gDy7mbg
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by MTR » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:53 pm

AlwaysImprove wrote:I agree. I have held a bat that had been rolled, and rubbed paper on it, and you could not detect anything. I suspect you are only catching poorly modified bats with the paper test and external visual inspection. As ontheblack pointed out, having the right equipment can make a much more professional job of it. Also having someone that knows what they are doing.


While I agree that this is not an absolute test, the bat I originally worked with was determined rolled by the manufacturer and was presented in OKC. There was virtually no visual or physical difference between the two bats. I was then allow to test the bats with a simple piece of paper and could easily identify the rolled one. You have to take my word for it, but trust me, I was amazed at what I could feel with that paper.

Somewhat skeptical, the local commissioner asked me to prove it. He arranged for players to provide multiple bats and one player (who swore he only used the rolled one in U-trip games :roll: ) told the commissioner which one was rolled. He asked me to show up at a complex on a league night and I successfully identified the rolled one simply using a piece of loose-leaf paper.

I'll admit, this isn't something anyone should be using to determine the legality of a bat. I was fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time with knowledgeable people providing the proper direction. I do not suggest others use it without some experience. The person also has to know what they are feeling. I do not arbitrarily use it to exclude bats and will only consider doing so if there is reason to use this test. Also, I will not conficate the bat, simply remove it from play and return the bat after the tournament.

There is something else that should be considered. Do you honestly believe the someone at ASA just happened to stumble onto this or made it up to scare people? Or do you think the manufacturers or testing labs discovered this and passed it on?
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by NumeroUno » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:25 pm

I did that paper test also on 4 bats. I could not tell the difference and no one else there could either. 2 bats were rolled 2 weren't. The onlty thing I felt was the decals or paint under the clear coat. Maybe it depends on how the bat was rolled and how much it was rolled. I heard of slow pitch guys breaking bats after less than 100 bombs hit. The bats are rolled so much they don't last.
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