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TX

MASK

Should MASK be Manitory

YES
41
55%
NO
34
45%
 
Total votes : 75

by outofnowhere » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:53 am

Blind Squirrel wrote:I have no strong opinion on this issue. I do wonder if, given the available information on the potentially serious affects from the hits suffered by youth football players (including those studies funded by the NFL), that the folks who condemn others for not protecting their kids would allow their sons to play football? I wonder if, given the statistics on 16/17 year old drivers, a single one of these people allow their under 18 year old child to drive a multi-ton vehicle with the ability to go 100 mph, particularly when nothing can be done to prevent the actions of the drivers around them?

John


john, you should of stopped after you said "i have no strong opinions on this" because the analogies you provided have nothing to do with a parent being smart enough to make a kid wear a mask.. football is football and if you elect to play it, no amount of protection is going to keep you from breaking a leg, or getting a concussion... as for driving, the parent cannot drive the kid, can only try to advise them to be cautious and safe..... now for the mask, you can make your kid wear it..... if they don't, then you can elect for them not to play one of the three positions that are most likely to cause damage.... i have always respected your posts but am still scratching my head on this one??? ;)
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by outofnowhere » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:55 am

Bring it wrote:SpazDad:

You are the last one I would credit as utilizing common sense in this discussion. We are not talking about other sports or car driving. A typical tactic in debate is if you can't logically debate your view then change the subject or go off course. We are talking about softball on this site.

Blind Squirrel and JJ's Dad are the major reasons I support wearing a mask. Letting your child make the decision? That is exactly what is wrong wih kids today...they are doing their parents job of making decisions.


I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU BRING IT, WELL SAID!! :)
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by Bring it » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:32 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGCR685GoI

Would not want this to be my daughter without a mask.
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by outofnowhere » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:51 am

Bring it wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGCR685GoI

Would not want this to be my daughter without a mask.


that is a great example, even though i watched it with one eye closed fearing for what i was about to see...

WEAR THE MASK!!!!!!!!!! WEAR THE MASK!!!!!!!!! WEAR, WEAR THE MASK!!!!!!!!

i should have been a cheerleader!!!
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by Blind Squirrel » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:55 am

outofnowhere wrote:john, you should of stopped after you said "i have no strong opinions on this" because the analogies you provided have nothing to do with a parent being smart enough to make a kid wear a mask.. football is football and if you elect to play it, no amount of protection is going to keep you from breaking a leg, or getting a concussion... as for driving, the parent cannot drive the kid, can only try to advise them to be cautious and safe..... now for the mask, you can make your kid wear it..... if they don't, then you can elect for them not to play one of the three positions that are most likely to cause damage.... i have always respected your posts but am still scratching my head on this one??? ;)


I'll try to explain myself better, though my approach may be even more maddening and nonsensical (not to mention too long):

Let’s say I had a 17 year old niece who was driving home after school one day. Let’s say she was stopped at an intersection at the HS entrance. It was a typical, relatively chaotic scene with people everywhere walking and driving home at the end of the school day. There was no shortage of distractions. Let’s say the light turned green and she proceeded to turn onto the main road by the school. She apparently didn't look and see the gentleman in the car that was going way too fast to stop at the red light. Let’s say that gentleman ran the red, his car slammed into her and she died in the accident.

If I were to look at that, I might have a number of thoughts:
1. If she had not been so distracted by what was going on and checked like she normally did for oncoming traffic, she would not have made the turn into the guy’s lane.
2. I heard a report some time ago that teenage drivers are in a disproportionate number of accidents. I have no link to a study that states this but I believe it is likely true nonetheless.
3. If she had not been allowed to drive until the age of 18, she would be alive today.

Let’s say that I have concluded that, given the statistics, her case is something short of freakishly rare and I find that sad and cause for concern. Concern about how it relates to my own kids and by natural extension, to kids in general. Since 16/17 year olds don’t typically have to drive themselves to do the things they need to do, driving for them is in fact an optional activity that they may or may not engage in. (Kind of like the option of wearing a mask when pitching.)

And so, let’s say, I believe there should be a law that prevents kids from driving until they are 18. For their own good and out of normal concern for the lives of children. Furthermore, I believe that whether a 16/17 year old is allowed to drive or not is a matter of common sense. I believe that any parent who allows their child to drive is a bonehead and further, that they have obviously handed over all decision making to their children. In sum, such parents should never have been allowed to breed and are wholly and completely unfit. Laws are needed to step in for the safety of kids whose parents are clearly so deficient.

How in the Hell could this possibly have anything to do with softball? In my view, it is relevant that you can replace the driving of the car with pitchers not wearing masks and the points being made are strikingly similar. There are certainly differences as well but I don’t consider the location of the activity to be as important as the nearly identical nature of the issues being raised.

Now, given how often my kids have told me my little analogies make absolutely no sense, I can’t help but wonder if this is another such case. Your suggestion that I stop after my first statement may very well have saved me this public embarrassment if I had listened. Sometimes I’m too freaking stupid to stop myself, just ask my wife and kids.

Would it strengthen my arguments for laws preventing 16/17 year olds from driving if I provide a link to pictures/video of the accident scene that I spoke of?

John
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by Bring it » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:04 am

Now, given how often my kids have told me my little analogies make absolutely no sense, I can’t help but wonder if this is another such case. Your suggestion that I stop after my first statement may very well have saved me this public embarrassment if I had listened. Sometimes I’m too freaking stupid to stop myself, just ask my wife and kids.

Now your wife and kids I could agree with! :D
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by SnocatzDad » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:15 am

Blind Squirrel wrote:
outofnowhere wrote:john, you should of stopped after you said "i have no strong opinions on this" because the analogies you provided have nothing to do with a parent being smart enough to make a kid wear a mask.. football is football and if you elect to play it, no amount of protection is going to keep you from breaking a leg, or getting a concussion... as for driving, the parent cannot drive the kid, can only try to advise them to be cautious and safe..... now for the mask, you can make your kid wear it..... if they don't, then you can elect for them not to play one of the three positions that are most likely to cause damage.... i have always respected your posts but am still scratching my head on this one??? ;)


I'll try to explain myself better, though my approach may be even more maddening and nonsensical (not to mention too long):

Let’s say I had a 17 year old niece who was driving home after school one day. Let’s say she was stopped at an intersection at the HS entrance. It was a typical, relatively chaotic scene with people everywhere walking and driving home at the end of the school day. There was no shortage of distractions. Let’s say the light turned green and she proceeded to turn onto the main road by the school. She apparently didn't look and see the gentleman in the car that was going way too fast to stop at the red light. Let’s say that gentleman ran the red, his car slammed into her and she died in the accident.

If I were to look at that, I might have a number of thoughts:
1. If she had not been so distracted by what was going on and checked like she normally did for oncoming traffic, she would not have made the turn into the guy’s lane.
2. I heard a report some time ago that teenage drivers are in a disproportionate number of accidents. I have no link to a study that states this but I believe it is likely true nonetheless.
3. If she had not been allowed to drive until the age of 18, she would be alive today.

Let’s say that I have concluded that, given the statistics, her case is something short of freakishly rare and I find that sad and cause for concern. Concern about how it relates to my own kids and by natural extension, to kids in general. Since 16/17 year olds don’t typically have to drive themselves to do the things they need to do, driving for them is in fact an optional activity that they may or may not engage in. (Kind of like the option of wearing a mask when pitching.)

And so, let’s say, I believe there should be a law that prevents kids from driving until they are 18. For their own good and out of normal concern for the lives of children. Furthermore, I believe that whether a 16/17 year old is allowed to drive or not is a matter of common sense. I believe that any parent who allows their child to drive is a bonehead and further, that they have obviously handed over all decision making to their children. In sum, such parents should never have been allowed to breed and are wholly and completely unfit. Laws are needed to step in for the safety of kids whose parents are clearly so deficient.

How in the Hell could this possibly have anything to do with softball? In my view, it is relevant that you can replace the driving of the car with pitchers not wearing masks and the points being made are strikingly similar. There are certainly differences as well but I don’t consider the location of the activity to be as important as the nearly identical nature of the issues being raised.

Now, given how often my kids have told me my little analogies make absolutely no sense, I can’t help but wonder if this is another such case. Your suggestion that I stop after my first statement may very well have saved me this public embarrassment if I had listened. Sometimes I’m too freaking stupid to stop myself, just ask my wife and kids.

Would it strengthen my arguments for laws preventing 16/17 year olds from driving if I provide a link to pictures/video of the accident scene that I spoke of?

John



Your cetainly working that analogy hard but wouldn't using your analogy the pitchers mask be more akin to the seat belt and seat belt law? Not driving would be anlagous to not playing and I don't believe anyone has suggested this as an injury preventer. If you truly believe it to be so rare and freakish I can accept that argument, but I think this is something that is trending to occur more, not less and too many people view this in terms of "didn't need it when I was a kid" which isn't relevant IMO

I will grant you that anecdotal evidence isn't debate, but I am sure there were people telling horrific stories about accidents where a seat belt could have saved lives prior to manufactures even accpeting that they should be standard equipment in cars.
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by Bring it » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:35 am

Thank you for an intelligent, reasoned response.
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by Blind Squirrel » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:58 am

SnocatzDad wrote:Your cetainly working that analogy hard but wouldn't using your analogy the pitchers mask be more akin to the seat belt and seat belt law? Not driving would be anlagous to not playing and I don't believe anyone has suggested this as an injury preventer. If you truly believe it to be so rare and freakish I can accept that argument, but I think this is something that is trending to occur more, not less and too many people view this in terms of "didn't need it when I was a kid" which isn't relevant IMO

I will grant you that anecdotal evidence isn't debate, but I am sure there were people telling horrific stories about accidents where a seat belt could have saved lives prior to manufactures even accpeting that they should be standard equipment in cars.


Working it hard? You're being kind with that understatement. I was actually just trying to be really, really clear. The funny thing is that my first post was only intended to question the consistency of the thinking of folks. I had no intention of embarking on some cosmic crusade on behalf of one side, as suggested by my first statement in that post. Still not terribly interested.

Just to clarify, my "freakishly rare" comment was only related to teen driving accidents and was in no way intended to be applied to the frequency of the softball injuries being discussed.

I will offer this as what I consider a reasonable response to my own question: People aint Spock on Star Trek. Pure logic doesn't rule their lives and always dictate their opinions/actions. I may believe that kids should wear masks and should be required to do so. Even though the dangers from kids driving are greater and happen more often, and I am just as concerned about their safety, I'm okay with my kid starting to drive at 16. I will do what I can to promote her safety while doing so, but I will not stop her from driving.


I'm feeling pretty done with this about now.

John
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by Blind Squirrel » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:09 am

SnoCatsDad,
One more thing. I like your idea that wearing seat belts is more akin to wearing masks than driving. Good point.

John
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