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Anderson Bat Q & A

What's on your mind?

by dittoz » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:35 pm

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TB - thanks a ton for continuing this - I don't want to delve too far into this discussion on this thread, mainly because the bat-engineering discussion is excellent and I'd love to see it remain on track.

However...

The two photos which I put together above are on vastly different pitches and therefore approaches to hitting them. What you cited regarding the X and Y axis, the bat in relation to the hands, etc are pretty much spot on and I doubt you'd get much debate there. But what is driving the differences is the pitch location. As Dunnin suggested, the pitch is significantly higher in the baseball photo than the one with my daughter and based on the position of the outbound baseball, he was still under it a bit. Kudos to the hitting coach with this boy - he has a very nice looking swing with good extension and a very firm front side. Note that he is exhibiting just a bit of tilt, but his weight is likely 99% against his front foot. Nice photo too.

As to the mechanics of it though, on a high pitch in general the swing necessarily flattens out and the bat barrel remains virtually parallel to the ground - pretty much even with the hands. On a lower pitch, thigh-high, the hands are almost always above the barrel. Imagine if one were to hit a ball that were knee-high. Could you imagine trying to keep the hands even with the barrel? You would have to drop to your knees in order to keep the hands parallel...

Remember, we're actually working on a premise that there are two different planes acting in concert together. The plane of the ground sets up the concept of hands being above the barrel of the bat on a "fat" middle-in belt high fastball. In fact, if you reconsider and utilize the swing plane... voila'! The hand's ARE on the same plane as the bat if the ball were a high pitch as you suggest where the swing plane is closely matched to the ground plane.

I have to admit that my initial thought about the comment of a too-long bat was somewhat defensive, but as I step back and stay objective, I do understand what you're saying. I've done a fair amount of study on the science of hitting and reviewed literally hundreds of video clips over the years of high-level hitters,. So that being said, I am well aware of the lag you describe. I wish I had a split-screen view I could load to show my DD's bat from more of a 90* side-view like the baseball hitter is so that you could look at the hand/barrel proximity from a y-axis perspective. (The barrel actually lags very little) It's funny though - as I go back and look at this photo again, one thing I am seeing is that if we consider the x-axis as correctly parallel to her shoulders and we utilize a swing plane parallel to that axis, I actually see the barrel appearing to be slightly ABOVE her hands - something I had not noticed previously. I can't say if that's the result of the camera angle or if it's actually occurring, but I think I do see it. In any case, the optimal slight upward swing plane is there as it invariably is with her on the mid-lower pitches and she replicates it constantly.

I'd love to continue this discussion, but as I said, I'd feel bad if this string took a turn away from the very excellent subject it has been n up to this point. Maybe a different thread, or via IM...?

Again, thanks a ton to TB and Dunnin for your very excellent input! You are part of the reason HB is such a terrific resource and forum!!!
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by Tumblebug » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:02 pm

I don’t mind this subject shift; you can’t separate the bat from the swing. The whole object for me is to provide game improvement by design. Perhaps we can have someone copy the pertinent posts to another thread?

However, I obviously did not make myself completely clear.

The bat angle itself was never in question but the right arm and shoulders in relation to the bat are troublesome. The point of the picture I posted is the bat and shoulders are close to parallel at contact. It doesn’t matter where in the zone the ball is, the shoulders should stay in line with the bat angle.

Stay with me here; look at the picture of Dittos DD. Now imagine changing nothing else but rotating the shoulder angle so that the left shoulder drops and the right shoulder rises so that they are at or near the same angle of the bat. The right elbow comes up and the left arm straightens to accommodate the shoulder angle. That cleans up 75% of the problems I see. Now lean her top half back so that the centerline of her shoulders is slightly behind the centerline of her hips which allows for the left arm extension and improves overall balance and, last but certainly not least, put her nose back on the ball. Viola! The long ball is born.

The softball swing is a series of progressive rotational linkages wherein one segment of the movement depends on the accuracy of the preceding segment but each piece may involve compensation for a previous inaccuracy which lowers the efficiency of the overall transfer of energy. Balance and leverage are the keys to a compact, efficient and powerful swing.

It should also be said that some of this may not be a mechanical or a bat issue. It is possible that she is simply compensating for being late on an inside pitch but I am not inclined to believe that here. It may be that what I am seeing is combination of the three. It’s hard to say from a single picture.

In my experience with youth players, the rise of the front-side (left) shoulder is indicative of a bat that is too long. To compensate for the bat-head drop, the shoulder rises to line up the front-side arm angle with the angle of the bat which has to happen to get the kind of contact shown in her picture. This young lady is obviously a good hitter. Perhaps it is all a matter of style and I am picking nits. I’d try the shorter bat to see if that doesn’t clean it up.
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by Tumblebug » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:22 pm

If this works,it is a good representation of what I am talking about. It is a bit of an experiment in my technical expertise so bear with me . . . Cool! 8-) It works! :D just click the picture below to see the slideshow . . .

Image


Notice the shoulder angle in comparison to the bat angle;at or near the same. Notice the angle of the top hand forearm, at or slightly above parallel to the ground. Notice the placement of the shoulders to the hip, at least slightly behind the hips.
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by dittoz » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:11 pm

I don't disagree with you half as much as I'm just having a tough time reconciling the two images.

The high pitch to the young lad versus Jillian's pitch are too different to really use as a comparison of what we're discussing, in my opinion. Granted, as I mentioned I see Jillian's barrel is above her hands on that plane, but I don't see the lag that is indicative of a bat too long. Raising that shoulder would most certainly level out the shoulder/bat planes and make them parallel, but I can't say if this is a swing mechanic flaw or an adjustment to that particular pitch. I will say that she generates a LOT of power for a pip squeak.

As to the upright position of her body, it's a trait we're actually working on - I'd like to see her with just a LITTLE tilt, but there's another successful young man in baseball that gets away without much tilt either and his at and shoulders are often slightly out of sync as well. Main difference is, he's got a few pounds on my kid!

Image
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by Tumblebug » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:02 pm

And there you have it! And I believe this concludes this portion of our show. Thank you very much for coming out tonight and I hope we passed the audition . . . :lol:
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by dittoz » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:00 pm

Funny Tumble... funny :D

Talk to you soon!

-curt
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by KekambuS » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:51 am

Tumblebug wrote:The Rumor Of My Demise Has Been Greatly Exaggerated! -- Mark Twain

Every time we introduce an exciting new product, rumors of our demise spring up. We have had an incredible spring. We released the redesigned TechZilla, the updated RocketTech, the Improved Techzilla XP (-9 (2 1/4) youth baseball), the Nanotek XS (-3 baseball), the Nanotek XT (-5 baseball), the KXR8 (-8 senior League baseball), the KXR10 (-10 senior League baseball) and the Nanotek SP (slowpitch softball).

The K-series is built from a brand new alloy. The NanoTek is a whole new, all metal composite, technology featuring the "LaunchPad" design! :D I can't be more excited about our future. There are still a lot of surprises in store from us. Stay tuned . . .

I'm new to HeyBucket but as the Anderson Bat Chief Engineer, I invite you to ask any technical questions you may have about Anderson Bats in particular or the physics of the ball/bat collision in general.
I don’t know if someone already asked you this question. Is there a break in time for your bats? All composite bats need so many hits before there truly hot. So I was wondering if your bats are 100% hot out of the package. If not how many hits?

Steven Anderson
Anderson Bat Company, LLC
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by KekambuS » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:55 am

KekambuS wrote:
Tumblebug wrote:The Rumor Of My Demise Has Been Greatly Exaggerated! -- Mark Twain

Every time we introduce an exciting new product, rumors of our demise spring up. We have had an incredible spring. We released the redesigned TechZilla, the updated RocketTech, the Improved Techzilla XP (-9 (2 1/4) youth baseball), the Nanotek XS (-3 baseball), the Nanotek XT (-5 baseball), the KXR8 (-8 senior League baseball), the KXR10 (-10 senior League baseball) and the Nanotek SP (slowpitch softball).

The K-series is built from a brand new alloy. The NanoTek is a whole new, all metal composite, technology featuring the "LaunchPad" design! :D I can't be more excited about our future. There are still a lot of surprises in store from us. Stay tuned . . .

I'm new to HeyBucket but as the Anderson Bat Chief Engineer, I invite you to ask any technical questions you may have about Anderson Bats in particular or the physics of the ball/bat collision in general.
I don’t know if someone already asked you this question. Is there a break in time for your bats? All composite bats need so many hits before there truly hot. So I was wondering if your bats are 100% hot out of the package. If not how many hits?

Steven Anderson
Anderson Bat Company, LLC

I don’t know if someone already asked you this question. Is there a break in time for your bats? All composite bats need so many hits before there truly hot. So I was wondering if your bats are 100% hot out of the package. If not how many hits?
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by RT4ever » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:43 am

To quote Mr. Anderson:

The typical break-in process is between 25 and 125 impacts. Remember you are listening for a change in the sound. The slowpitch model may be more because the walls are thicker. I break mine in by pounding it off a tee. and turning it after every impact. Remember that you are dislodging one wall from the other and turning the bat is important.
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by KekambuS » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:11 am

RT4ever wrote:To quote Mr. Anderson:

The typical break-in process is between 25 and 125 impacts. Remember you are listening for a change in the sound. The slowpitch model may be more because the walls are thicker. I break mine in by pounding it off a tee. and turning it after every impact. Remember that you are dislodging one wall from the other and turning the bat is important.

got ya. understand. thanks
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