Does the pitcher have control of the ball?

[Tucson]

I was watching a 12U pitcher this weekend (ASA) that on almost every pitch, she had to fix her hair. She would put the glove and ball between her knees or under one arm, even with runners on, and pull off the visor or hair tie and put it back on.

The other coach never sent his runners, but I was under the impression that the ball is not under her control, if the ball is not in her hand (or glove, with it on her hand.)

Another thing she liked to do was practice her arm circle, in the pitchers circle, with the ball, but off the pitcher's plate. Sometimes, she just walked around power K(ing) it into her glove. Can't the runners go, then, also?

[Comp]

Pitcher must have control of the ball, so every time she placed the ball under her arm, or between her legs the runners would have been free to go.

As for pitching into her own glove, the rules supplement states that the ball must be held in either the hand or the glove. There is a fraction of a second when the ball is not in either, but in reality the ball is held and controlled in the hand, and then held and controlled in the glove.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Interesting ... NHFS in the case book 8.7.1 situation E address' this and specifically says that if the ball is in the glove ( between knees but presumably anywhere ) while she is fixing her hair device that the runners can not leave the base and ASA says that it must be in the hand or glove while both hands are free to fix her hair ... same intent I guess just different words ...

[Tucson]

So, in ASA this has changed for this year?

Originally Posted by ASA 2008 Rules Supplement 34
The pitcher places the ball under their arm or between their legs
to free both hands to fix their uniform, hair, etc. The ball is not
controlled unless it is held in the glove or hand. Once the pitcher
controls the ball again in the glove or hand, the “Look Back” rule
is again in effect.

[Comp]

FED and ASA have 2 different deffinitions. FED just says posession, ASA says posession and control. In FED the pitcher can place the ball under the arm or between the legs and short of dropping the ball or setting it on the ground she is considered to have posession. ASA required control of the ball, and the original post indicated it was an ASA game, runners would have been free to go.

[Bretman]

Neither the ASA or FED rule has been changed for years. They both have slightly different wording to their rule and different interpretations. It's been that way for at least a decade (as far back as I have rule books to confirm it). I don't know if one or the other ever made any changes to the rule prior to that.

[wadeintothem]

Agree with Brett.. no change, asa/nfhs. Thats the ways its been.

Steal. The last time I saw that happen they stole all the way to 3rd because everyone was so busy yelling and whining at me they left the runner alone.

[Tucson]

Thanks.

And to the other situation, where the pitcher is practicing her windmill and popping the ball in the glove? Is it OK to steal?

[wadeintothem]

I suppose were counting milliseconds here and its debatable as to theory on a message board - on the field I'd ring your runner. If pressed I'd tell the coach she left early on the practice wind mill.

[NuggDawg]

Thanks.

And to the other situation, where the pitcher is practicing her windmill and popping the ball in the glove? Is it OK to steal?

Say that the governing rules consider that the pitcher doesn't have control during the moment in which the ball is in between the hand and the glove. The umpires now have to determine that the runner left the bag during that minuscule time frame. Which means they have to see both events at the same time. I'll bet that a smart umpire wouldn't claim to say they saw the runner time the transfer but rather the opposite--runner lost contact while the ball was in the pitcher's control (either the glove or hand). Who needs the grief of letting the game get out of control?