Georgia/Missouri trapped ball call

[SkinnyFats]

Can one of the blues out there please explain the trapped ball call during the Georgia/Missouri WCWS game?

For those who missed it, Missouri was batting, one out and runners on first and second. A line drive was hit to the Georgia first baseman, who caught the ball just above the ground and stepped on first for the inning-ending double play. Neither Missouri baserunner advanced from the bag more than 10 feet or so, and now they headed off the field.

The blues now get confused as to whether or not the ball was caught (replays indicate that it was). Since there's some confusion about this, the Georgia shortstop starts tagging every Missouri player she can find.

The blues confer, decide that the ball was trapped, that the batter was forced at first, and decide to place baserunners at second and third. Neither baserunner was ever within 50 feet of the bag they were placed at. They most certainly didn't start scampering around the infield, getting safely back to any bag. They talking head announcers decide that since the runners never entered the dugout, they hadn't left the field of play, so they weren't out (which by the way, was incorrect as well - the runner on first did enter the dugout, in addition to being tagged twice), completely ignoring the fact that they were tagged as well as never actually gettting back to any base, just being placed on a base by the blues.

So, exactly how did this ruling come about?

[Comp]

They only showed part of the conversation on TV, so I have no idea what their full reasoning was. I am also a little perplexed as to why the runners were put at 2 and 3. The only thing I can come up with is that they decided that either their actions, or inactions put the runners as risk. Home plate may not have made a definitive call or sign on the non catch, or one of the base umps may have done something off camera that we didnt get to see. But, once the umpires called time, the fielder can run around touching all the bags and runners she likes and it doesnt mean a thing. If in fact they decided that they put the runners at risk this is why they killed the play and put them back on base, but I dont know why 2 and 3, personally I probably would have put them back at 1 and 2 considering at least the original runner from 1 ended up back there.

[SkinnyFats]

I'm not sure I completely agree with you on this, and here's why:

Video clearly shows the BU raising a fist when the first baseman steps on the bag, indicating an out. Question is, who is he calling out?

The umpire conference tells us who. The conference went pretty much like this:

PU: I didn't see a catch. Did you see a catch?
BU1: No, I didn't see a catch.
BU2: I have no idea, I didn't see anything.
PU: Ok then, no catch, force at first.

So if we take the blues at their word, none saw a catch, therefore none indicated an out on the catch. So the BU was punching out the batter at first, and suddenly the other base runners start wandering around the infield. So why would the umps call time? The play is still live, right? Why can't they be tagged out? The umpire's actions didn't put anyone at risk- they must not have signaled an out on the catch, and they called an out at first. The runners put themselves at risk.

In 8U rec, I've seen the blues saying, "look you all didn't understand my call, so I am going to use my god-like abilities to place baserunners where I think they should go". But if you don't understand the umpire's signals in the WCWS and start wandering off to the dugout, it doesn't seem to me like the umps should come along after the fact and just place you wherever they decide, much less decide to advance you a base for some reason.

[MTR]

I'm not sure I completely agree with you on this, and here's why:

Video clearly shows the BU raising a fist when the first baseman steps on the bag, indicating an out. Question is, who is he calling out?

The umpire conference tells us who. The conference went pretty much like this:

PU: I didn't see a catch. Did you see a catch?
BU1: No, I didn't see a catch.
BU2: I have no idea, I didn't see anything.
PU: Ok then, no catch, force at first.

Actually, I believe SW said, "I definitely have the ball down".

So if we take the blues at their word, none saw a catch, therefore none indicated an out on the catch. So the BU was punching out the batter at first, and suddenly the other base runners start wandering around the infield. So why would the umps call time? The play is still live, right? Why can't they be tagged out? The umpire's actions didn't put anyone at risk- they must not have signaled an out on the catch, and they called an out at first. The runners put themselves at risk.

They probably killed the play because both teams were heading off the field when the UG coach realized the PU did not rule a catch and entered the field of play. Any subsequent action is irrelevant, so all that throwing the ball around, or the runners leaving the field of play about which the idiot talking heads were spouting was just a waste of air time.

Once there was a discussion, the chances of a double play were almost nil. The placement of the runners was the proper mechanic for ruling the BR out. If the call had been overturned and ruled a catch, the runners probably would have been placed at 1st & 2nd.

[SkinnyFats]

The placement of the runners was the proper mechanic for ruling the BR out.

Why? Can you explain this further please?

[MTR]

The placement of the runners was the proper mechanic for ruling the BR out.

Why? Can you explain this further please?

Where else would you put them?

R2 & R3 were advancing toward 3B & 2B respectively when the play was made. EVERYONE, offense and defense stopped as it was presumed by all those on the field, the inning had ended. The crew cannot ASSUME either runner would have retreated and returned to their bases under any circumstance involving a ground/bounding ball.

Below are the rules under which the crew acted.

15.2.14 The plate umpire is empowered to rectify any situation in which a
delayed call or a reversal of a call places a player in undue jeopardy.

15.9.3 The umpires may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an
umpire’s decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a
runner or the defensive team in jeopardy. This correction is not possible
after one legal or illegal pitch has been thrown or after the pitcher and
all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and
have left fair territory.

[SkinnyFats]

R2 & R3 were advancing toward 3B & 2B respectively when the play was made.

I disagree. The runner on first base was headed back to the base, because unlike the umps she correctly saw that the ball was caught and was trying to avoid being doubled off.

EVERYONE, offense and defense stopped as it was presumed by all those on the field, the inning had ended.

This I agree with.

The crew cannot ASSUME either runner would have retreated and returned to their bases under any circumstance involving a ground/bounding ball.

The runner at first was headed back to the bag. Do they assume she would run to second even when they watch her run to first?

15.2.14 The plate umpire is empowered to rectify any situation in which a
delayed call or a reversal of a call places a player in undue jeopardy.

What call was delayed or reversed? No one signaled that the ball was caught; they just ruled a force out at first. Where's the delay or reversal?

15.9.3 The umpires may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an
umpire’s decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a
runner or the defensive team in jeopardy. This correction is not possible
after one legal or illegal pitch has been thrown or after the pitcher and
all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and
have left fair territory.

Again, what was delayed or reversed?

[MTR]

Well, since apparently you know better, I guess we will see your fat skinny ass out there next year.