NFCA in Vegas

[tbjd33]

For every kid that gets recruited in 7th or 8th grade and ends up being successful on the ball field and in the classroom, getting the major they really want that prepares them for the rest of their lives, and go to a school a school they really love there are probably 10 that end up:
...
The bottom line is that the early verbals are only helpful for a very small percentage of the players out there and should be eliminated for the benefit of the vast majority of the players and for the health of the entire sport itself.

Hyperbole isn't constructive.

- Very few girls are being recruited while in 8th grade and only a handful have committed prior to finishing 8th. Verbal lists currently show 5 2019s and 51 2018s. I expect most of the 2018s weren't recruited until after they finished 8th grade.

- 1 out of 11 being successful is ludicrous speculation. There is no basis for your assertions because the first early verbals have just recently entered college and there are very few of them.

The number of players committing early (i.e. HS soph or before) has increased each year to where it is now becoming fairly commonplace, but it's still a small portion of the overall number. FullCount's list has 250 2017s, 648 2016s and 1,165 2015s.

The issue is that a lot of these college programs are taking advantage of starry-eyed children and naive parents.

The college coaches have a huge edge in the process because they're far more experienced at it than the recruits. They use that edge to their advantage regardless of when it occurs.

It was eye-opening this year when GA broke some commitments due to just a change in asst coaches. Verbals are supposed to be with the head coach, so it's beyond me how anyone can trust her after that.

I find it hard to believe that more than 1 8th grader about every 5 years is ready to get recruited to this level.

Market forces went to work in Football and Men's Basketball. Early announcements are truly a marketing tactic for the recruit. Decommits are so common, someone says "hey you have to stick to your commitments" they are laughed at, by everyone. Transfers are so common, that holdouts are espn level news. Something like 34% of the D1 scholarship athletes transfer in football and basketball.

Softball there was a coach consortium that tilted the system towards the top teams. They agreed to not recruit each others verbal commitments. This sent the mids racing down the age groups. The bigs then went down as well.

Softball side, the transfers are definitely on the rise. So kids/families are figuring it out. You hear a few decommits here and there, but no where near the level.

So maybe fpdad05 numbers are a touch hyperbolic. The reality is there are very few players ready to be recruited as freshman. Maybe 2 a year. Nothing like the level seen. Thinking through the kids that i knew when my kid was getting recruited and where and how they turned out. Recruiting freshman is just a horrid idea. Yet it persists.

You think that market forces have achieved a workable balance, then I think you are not paying attention. Kids are still signing up for teams with 37 kids on the roster. A team that signs 10 freshman and graduates 4 seniors, year in and year out. Either parents are just not aware. not getting it or find themselves making bad decisions. I used to think it was just about getting the word out as well. But now think it is time to nudge for some balance in the marketplace.

Part of the issue is that in football and mens basketball, most of the kids are in organizations that are informed of recruiting process and kind of know the system before they are actively recruited. In Softball, certainly at the top, the FC, the bat busters, Corona Angles, you certianly have some organizations with deep understanding in the sysetm. The problem is that a lot of recruiting decisions are made before they show up on the more advanced teams. They are made by people that are just beside themselves excited that they are even talking to a college coach.

I am a big fan of market forces. Just once in a while there are solid indications that the market is tilted. This is one of them. The coaches are using the verbal announcements pages as a way of communicating amongst each other to enforce no recruitment rules. Parents have just not gotten smart enough to realize that a decommit or a transfer often makes the most sense.

Having gone through this process in football and baseball for college now with a 2019 actively being recruited by Pac12 and Big12 Ive seen both positive and negative. I would error on the side of positives rather than negative in my opinion.

I don't think its a good analogy to compare transfer rates for men's basketball and football. They are working on making big $$$. They are fighting for a spot so they can have that opportunity. Transfers in that case happen for those reasons. It's apples and oranges for our DD's. If they transfer they are stupid. The schools we have taken visits at we've asked those questions and you will see those numbers are not as you all portray. The resources these ladies have and the opportunity have there is no reason to transfer once there.

Problem is the same mentality in travel ball about seeking playing time is carried on in college in some cases. That's a poor character issue and is the parents fault.

Only time will tell over the next couple of years but I just don't see the issue as a whole. Look at the majority not the minority issues. As I've said nothing better than opportunity in life...

[PDad]

I am a big fan of market forces. Just once in a while there are solid indications that the market is tilted. This is one of them. The coaches are using the verbal announcements pages as a way of communicating amongst each other to enforce no recruitment rules. Parents have just not gotten smart enough to realize that a decommit or a transfer often makes the most sense.

I already said it's tilted in the coaches' favor because they're more experienced at it - it's their job. I also think the players risk more than the coaches by committing early, which is why I proposed the alternative of making the early verbals "soft" - i.e. allow the players to continue marketing themselves. If the verbal lists are an impediment to that, people need to keep their kids off them until they're ready to make a commitment.

FWIW, kids marginally make better decisions as juniors and seniors. Most still haven't a made an informed decision about what they want to study and they still choose schools for the wrong reasons. The transfer rate for ALL students at a 4-year school is around 25%, so even non-athletes struggle with picking the right school as a senior.

[AlwaysImprove]

I am a big fan of market forces. Just once in a while there are solid indications that the market is tilted. This is one of them. The coaches are using the verbal announcements pages as a way of communicating amongst each other to enforce no recruitment rules. Parents have just not gotten smart enough to realize that a decommit or a transfer often makes the most sense.

I already said it's tilted in the coaches' favor because they're more experienced at it - it's their job. I also think the players risk more than the coaches by committing early, which is why I proposed the alternative of making the early verbals "soft" - i.e. allow the players to continue marketing themselves. If the verbal lists are an impediment to that, people need to keep their kids off them until they're ready to make a commitment.

FWIW, kids marginally make better decisions as juniors and seniors. Most still haven't a made an informed decision about what they want to study and they still choose schools for the wrong reasons. The transfer rate for ALL students at a 4-year school is around 25%, so even non-athletes struggle with picking the right school as a senior.

I was just pointed out that it was tilted beyond the experience part. The coaches in softball collude. They collude to keep verbals from going soft. They use Umaass's list and newspaper announcements to lock kids in, by communicating to the other coaches that the kid is off the market.

In my experience, not announcing your verbal is absolutely in your best interest. Other schools will definitely continue to contact you. Unfortunately you will make your select coach and friends crazy. Also your current coach will likely call asking why you have not announced and making sure that you are fully committed. I seriously doubt this will become the trend in softball recruiting, but it definitely tilts things back to the recruit/family side of the equation.

[PDad]

I was just pointed out that it was tilted beyond the experience part. The coaches in softball collude. They collude to keep verbals from going soft. They use Umaass's list and newspaper announcements to lock kids in, by communicating to the other coaches that the kid is off the market.

Beyond the experience part - it's their job, so they employ whatever strategies benefit them. I agree they want to keep verbals as hard commitments by recruits because it provides stability. However, that doesn't stop coaches from doing whatever is in their best interests after making them. Recruits need to wise up and do likewise. It's reasonable and fair that recruits can decommit once, especially with these early verbals.

Characterizing the verbal lists as collusion to lock in kids is a stretch. They're meant to publicize kids being off the market and provide transparency. Your collusion is really just an orderly market. We agree players shouldn't be on the lists if they still want to entertain offers.

BTW, UMassFan discontinued updating his list at least a year ago. Also, the newspaper announcements are not by the college coaches because NCAA rules ban them from publicizing verbal commitments.

[CheckWriter]

BTW, UMassFan discontinued updating his list at least a year ago.

JMO took over for a while and updated in batches.

There are two sites (maybe more? that seem to be actively following:

http://www.goldfastpitch.com/verbals-by-school-2/

That one (above) sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

This one is new to me:

https://www.fullcountsoftball.com/recruiting/verbal-softball-commits-master-list/

Youngest DD a senior in college hoping that her Lisfranc injury heals up enough to play her last year. Don't really follow the commits any more.

[PDad]

BTW, UMassFan discontinued updating his list at least a year ago.

JMO took over for a while and updated in batches.

Correct. I should of said updating of the UMassFan list was discontinued over a year ago. Some people still post announcements on the thread.

There are two sites (maybe more? that seem to be actively following:

http://www.goldfastpitch.com/verbals-by-school-2/

That one (above) sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

This one is new to me:

https://www.fullcountsoftball.com/recruiting/verbal-softball-commits-master-list/

Those are the lists I reference. FullCountSoftball broke off from StudentSports. FCS has a search feature that is handy - I use it to quickly get the number of entries for a grad class.