Shocking!!

[jonriv]

Are you experiencing some LSD induced paranoia flashback?????


1) the DHS (dept of Homeland Security) stockpile purchase of hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo with military grade weapons & vehicles to local, regional & state police
- local and state police have ALWAYS bought(or have transferred) surplus military equip that they can use- it is a cheaper alternative. Most of the equipment is already depreciated and it makes financial sense to transfer instead of storing.

2)Govt taking our guns, our rights, abusing power, lying to the people
- supreme court upheld the "Right to bear arms " in a recent decision-with the Governments right to reasonable controls/restrictions(as with all rights) With the most heavily armed civillian population in the industrialized world- a mass disarming does not seem likely

3)Wall Streets so out of wack (controlled by the Fed) the heights of stocks that WILL eventually fall
- as someone that works in the financial world- it is the MOST regulated industry in the country. The amount of compliance training, audits controls etc are unreal. Wall Street(the markets) tend to be a forcaster of things. The history of the market is that it goes up(with corrections in between) Ti is not a straight ride up. Those who hid under a rock the past few years made litle or none in the market- those who had guts and foresight made money- which is usually the case

4)followed by the collapse of the petro dollar replace by China's whatever
What do you get?

The Chinese are posturing-why, because they can.. Similar to the US in the late 1800's and the British Pound. At the rate of current domestic production the whole Petro dollars issue may just be moot

Revolution ? no why? because the govt has turned people into sheep, eliminated the middle class & we are left with a police state

The death of the middle class is greatly exagerrated- it is certainly going through changes as we move into a post industrial world. Police state- please.

You may choose to live in fear and a false sense of nostalgia. I prefer to see things as they are and were. Less than perfect, needing improvements, but much better than some of the alternatives.

will it happen in our lifetime?

[blackwidow]

jonriv..

1)The police have not ALWAYS bought transferred and used military equipment, that statement is patently FALSE.

Section 1208 of the Fiscal Year 1990 and 1991 National Defense Authorization Acts (NDAAs) authorized the transfer of excess DOD personal property for federal and state law enforcement agencies for use in counter-drug activities. It was commonly referred to as “the 1208 Program”

Section 1033 of the Fiscal Year 1997 NDAA authorized the transfer of excess DOD personal property to federal and state LEAs in the execution of law enforcement activities to include counter-drug and counter-terrorism activities. Today, it is commonly referred to as “the 1033 Program” or “the LESO Program”

It is also false that it is a cheaper, more cost effective alternative.

https://www.rutherford.org/publications ... epartment_

~Peace

[exD1dad]

Jonriv first of all I've never had a LSD flashback nor am I paranoid & incase you were wondering I'm a proud supporter our military.
1)DHS purchase's are TOTALLY unnecessary to fulfil their function/mission statement
2)slowly but surely the good guys are losing their rights to buy guns & ammo. Obviously the criminals didn't get the memo a Chicago (strongest anti gun lawws) has 1 of the woest crime rates, same thing happened in DC in the 1980's,
3)You never mentioned anything about the govt lying to us perhaps because you just accept it like millions of others or you don't realize it.
I know a little bit about finance, auditing & compliance regulations have nothing to do with the Banksters (bank Gangsters) Tell me a how you justify a historically high Wall st when , the fake unemployment statistics the Gov feeds us show our nation hurting , the % of the population who's on food stamps or other assistance, FAKE GNP when small business are shutting down. How is Wall st a forecaster when most people are worse off than when Obama took office & look where wall st has gone since then? Didn't touch "The Fed" cuz you know what I said is the Truth.
4)Most people dont even know about the petro dollar & it's importance in world finance or have even the basic understanding of what will happen if we lose the power associated with the Petro Dollar. That would be total collaspe of the system as we know it, What you call posturing I assume you mean the Chinese devaluation of the yen which is a whole nother conversation involving trade /finance foreign policy etc for another time.

I don't live in fear but I do honestly search for the truth & refuse to be force fed lies by the govt, the media because I am not a brainwashed American. Here's my point in a nutshell, Bengazzi, fast & furious guns, NSA spying, & who's the biggest employer in the Country ? The Gov

[jonriv]

1)The police have not ALWAYS bought transferred and used military equipment, that statement is patently FALSE.

Section 1208 of the Fiscal Year 1990 and 1991 National Defense Authorization Acts (NDAAs) authorized the transfer of excess DOD personal property for federal and state law enforcement agencies for use in counter-drug activities. It was commonly referred to as “the 1208 Program”

Section 1033 of the Fiscal Year 1997 NDAA authorized the transfer of excess DOD personal property to federal and state LEAs in the execution of law enforcement activities to include counter-drug and counter-terrorism activities. Today, it is commonly referred to as “the 1033 Program” or “the LESO Program”

It is also false that it is a cheaper, more cost effective alternative.

https://www.rutherford.org/publications ... epartment_

Yes this program dates back to only the nineties- but the practice of surplus military supplies, equiptment- training areas going to states and local govt/law enforcement has gone on since before the civil war

I agree these vehicles are pretty much useless in most of the areas that aquired them, but they are certainly not evidence of a new police state either. Most of these will spend most of their time in various parades during the year. There are only a few Police Departments that would have an actual need fo such an armored car (NYPD ?)

[jonriv]

Jonriv first of all I've never had a LSD flashback nor am I paranoid & incase you were wondering I'm a proud supporter our military.
1)DHS purchase's are TOTALLY unnecessary to fulfil their function/mission statement
2)slowly but surely the good guys are losing their rights to buy guns & ammo. Obviously the criminals didn't get the memo a Chicago (strongest anti gun lawws) has 1 of the woest crime rates, same thing happened in DC in the 1980's,
3)You never mentioned anything about the govt lying to us perhaps because you just accept it like millions of others or you don't realize it.
I know a little bit about finance, auditing & compliance regulations have nothing to do with the Banksters (bank Gangsters) Tell me a how you justify a historically high Wall st when , the fake unemployment statistics the Gov feeds us show our nation hurting , the % of the population who's on food stamps or other assistance, FAKE GNP when small business are shutting down. How is Wall st a forecaster when most people are worse off than when Obama took office & look where wall st has gone since then? Didn't touch "The Fed" cuz you know what I said is the Truth.
4)Most people dont even know about the petro dollar & it's importance in world finance or have even the basic understanding of what will happen if we lose the power associated with the Petro Dollar. That would be total collaspe of the system as we know it, What you call posturing I assume you mean the Chinese devaluation of the yen which is a whole nother conversation involving trade /finance foreign policy etc for another time.

I don't live in fear but I do honestly search for the truth & refuse to be force fed lies by the govt, the media because I am not a brainwashed American. Here's my point in a nutshell, Bengazzi, fast & furious guns, NSA spying, & who's the biggest employer in the Country ? The Gov

Where to start....
I do not consider the unemployment stats as lies- they are understated(and have always been understated) -but I learned that in a 1982 High School economics class- they only count those who have put in for unemeployement- they do not account for those who have given up or who are underemployed- but most forcasters and business people know they are understated(and frankly the rate is still way too high)

BTW- the Chinese currency is the Yuan(the Japanese currency is the Yen) Currently it is believed that the Yuan is kept artificially low by the Chinese- if the the Petro dollar was converted to Yuan(for argumens sake) the Yuan would actually have to be "floated" against other currencies- that move would increase the Yuan in value and crush their export business-not likely to happen. The Petrodollar happeded back in the Nixon admin as a deal with the Saudis for protection against the Soviets. I doubt you would see a conversion to Petroyuan, but you might see trading in oil in other currencies along with the dollar. Your probablly would still see the NYMEX oil futures stay in $$$$

Wall Street is historically high(with still a lot of money on the sideline) for a lot of reaseons:

1) Strong corporate balance sheets with a lot of cash
2) Low interest rates(partially maintained by QE1,2 & 3)
3) Strong improvements in efficiency over the past 4-5 years
4) Huge improvements in the energy sector

All of these I might say in spite of th Obama admins policies. IMO the president wasted time and resources. Should have invested in real infrastructure Railroads, Highways, Powergrid etc.. Work to lower corp taxes. Set up longer term regulations so that businesses could actually plan for them(instead of changing or threatening to change) I feel he never quite understood the harm the rhetoric can have.

EXDD1- I understand the fears, but try to remember what it felt like at the end of the carter admin(which was worse than it is now) and remeber what followed

I am in the banking business- I work with small businesses. Yes many are hurting, but many are doing well and Over the past year I have seen a lot more start up. Do I think the GDP numbers are fake-no(2% stinks)

[blackwidow]

jonriv...

but the practice of surplus military supplies, equiptment- training areas going to states and local govt/law enforcement has gone on since before the civil war

What evidence can you provide that supports this conclusion?

but they are certainly not evidence of a new police state either.

It is evidence of a continuation in the police state.
Combine the militarization of police departments with the erosion of the inalienable rights that we are guaranteed under the US Constitution.

The Patriot Act-basically supercedes our constitution
http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controvers ... atriot_Act

The NDAA-
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/art ... ee-society

The TSA -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04510.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/1117/ ... titutional

NSA surveillance-
http://www.npr.org/2013/08/22/214357414 ... titutional\
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... rveillance

FISA
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/ ... itutional/

We have
Blanket surveillance of all US citizens
Secret courts that administer secret laws.
The indefinite detention of American citizens without due process.
No knock raids by SWAT teams. Sneak and Peak searches. Random check-points around the country.
AND An executive branch that claims the right authorize the murder of anyone, anywhere in the world.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... t-doj-memo

Most of these erosions are considered an inconvenience by the average citizen and maybe that's why no one cares about them. Most people simply think that these measures are making everyone safer. I happen to disagree. Study history.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. " Lord Acton


This Political Cartoon From 20 Years Ago Was Disturbingly Prescient
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... lance.html

MEANWHILE.jpg (34.27 KiB) Viewed 9454 times

[jonriv]

Camp Smith NY was US Army reservation that was transferred to the NY National Guard, NY Guard, NY State Police and the FBI for training following WWII There are many other examples BW

Police State????? Live in fear soaked paranoia if you want(ironically as you spew whatever you want on the internet )

[exD1dad]

Jonriv Why did DHS purchase 750 million rounds of ammo earlier this year? by the way they wanted 1.6 billion, to protect us ? I doubt it

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin ... -purchases

[blackwidow]

Camp Smith NY was US Army reservation that was transferred to the NY National Guard, NY Guard, NY State Police and the FBI for training following WWII There are many other examples B
Police State????? Live in fear soaked paranoia if you want(ironically as you spew whatever you want on the internet )

[color=#000000]

You mean this place?
http://dmna.ny.gov/campsmith/history.php
Show me where they donate used military equipment to the police?
It appears to be a training facility vailable to military units, law enforcement agencies, government and civilian organizations.
Apples and oranges. Try again.
Fear-soaked paranoia? LOL. Nice discussing important issues with you jonriv.
Peace to you.

[jonriv]

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS20549.pdf

Summary
The Department of Defense (DOD) through a Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) component
called DLA Disposition Services [formerly the Defense Utilization and Marketing Service
(DRMS)] has a policy for disposing of government equipment and supplies considered surplus or
deemed unnecessary, or excess to the agency’s currently designated mission. DLA Disposition
Services is responsible for property reuse (including resale), precious metal recovery, recycling,
hazardous property disposal, and the demilitarization of military equipment. The effort to dispose
of surplus military equipment dates back to the end of World War II when the federal government
sought to reduce a massive inventory of surplus military equipment by making such equipment
available to civilians. (The disposal of surplus real property, including land, buildings,
commercial facilities, and equipment situated thereon, is assigned to the General Services
Administration, Office of Property Disposal.)