Connecticut school shooting

[SoCalASABlue]

My point is- if mental illness or problems are involved-moral fiber has nothing to do with it.

They have yet to say this guy had mental illness, they have barely identified him, people are assuming he was mental by his actions. This act was planned, premeditated and evil.

Well that's a mental illness, diagnosed or not. No one in their right mind would do what he did.

I would be interested in a study of the shooters that detailed what medications they were on, if any.

There was an article in this past Sunday's San Diego Union Tribune (byline was a NYT writer, I think) that almost made it sound like the guy had some form of autism. The article also skated around the edges of "he was bullied because he was different". The excuses have already started. He may have had mental problems but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing.

[as the world turns]

My point is- if mental illness or problems are involved-moral fiber has nothing to do with it.

They have yet to say this guy had mental illness, they have barely identified him, people are assuming he was mental by his actions. This act was planned, premeditated and evil.

Well that's a mental illness, diagnosed or not. No one in their right mind would do what he did.

I would be interested in a study of the shooters that detailed what medications they were on, if any.

There was an article in this past Sunday's San Diego Union Tribune (byline was a NYT writer, I think) that almost made it sound like the guy had some form of autism. The article also skated around the edges of "he was bullied because he was different". The excuses have already started. He may have had mental problems but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing.

This whole self esteem bullsh*t movement crap is paying horrible dividends. Sounds like Mom knew the kid had problems and spoiled him in order to resolve(mask) the issues. Like my old man used to say, if you want self-esteem, earn it.

[Trophy Hunter]

I believe he knew exactly what he was doing, but his brain could no longer differentiate between acceptable social interaction and senseless violence. I also believe, but we may never know due to confidentiality laws, that this kid was pumped full of psychoactive drugs for much of his life. That's not making an excuse for him, but a statement that our ability to properly address mental health issues is almost non-existent. We have allowed Big Pharma to take over the responsibility for "fixing" our children, much to our detriment. The increased rate of incidence coincides with an increase in "new" treatment, and that's not a coincidence.
The alternative is to question and research on your own everything your doctor tels you, and every medication they prescribe. My kid was having anxiety attacks, went on a couple of months, we took her in, the doctor said all tests were fine but then said she should start taking "xyz" pills. We opted to hold off on tht idea to do our own research, asked for literature from the doctor, and left.
A few days later I'm having lunch with my kid and we're talking about her hectic schedule with school, softball, volunteering, a social life, etc etc. part of her routine was to meet classmates at a Coffee Bean after school to group study, then come home and eat, chill a bit, then study until hitting the rack, sometimes well past midnight. Then up again at 530 to do it all over again. I asked her what she had to drink at Coffee Bean, and if she was tired in the morning did she stop in for something to "pick her up" on the way to school. Turns out she was wired most all day and into the night and dead tired and stressed by the time she fell asleep.
I suggested she back off on Coffee Bean for a while.
Anxiety gone. That simple. No pills.
F you very much, "health care."
Don't medicate your kids, talk to them. Accept your personal responsibility as a parent. Rant over, happy ending.

[NumeroUno]

That is exactly right, my mom taught school for 45 years. When she first started kids were disciplined at home and at school when they deserved it and most parents backed up the system. As time went on all that stopped, she had kids tell her "I can do what I want and you can't touch me". So kids like that are sent to the office and back in class the next day with a bigger dose of dope. I am sure their are plenty of cases where dope might be the best thing but I also believe most kids on doctor supplied dope would be better off with a good ol fashion whipping.

If you don't get punished then you are not afraid to cross the line, if you know their is a consequence you may think twice of your actions

[THE GODFATHER]

That is exactly right, my mom taught school for 45 years. When she first started kids were disciplined at home and at school when they deserved it and most parents backed up the system. As time went on all that stopped, she had kids tell her "I can do what I want and you can't touch me". So kids like that are sent to the office and back in class the next day with a bigger dose of dope. I am sure their are plenty of cases where dope might be the best thing but I also believe most kids on doctor supplied dope would be better off with a good ol fashion whipping.

If you don't get punished then you are not afraid to cross the line, if you know their is a consequence you may think twice of your actions

Here Here!!!

I firmly believe in an ol fashioned a** whooping, that's what made me think strait.

Just saying.

[jonriv]

I am all for good discipline etc, but rational solutions tend to only work with the rational. All of these school and other massacres over the past decade(or more) have had a common thread. A kid or kids that were isolated(either by choice or by the group) and had some form of mental or emotional issues. A study by the Secret Service showed that in all of the previous cases the perpetrators had told others of their plans and that several "red flags" had been missed. In all of these cases a responsible adult(parent, teacher, doctor) had failed to act. These were all kids that were either bullied, ostracized, or simply ignored. None of this mitigates or diminishes the pure evil of these acts, but we are foolish to push it aside as a "crutch" or "just an excuse"

What I hope comes from this incident and after some of the emotions cool down is a rational discussion of how this happened and how to prevent it. "More Gun Control" from the left and "Our morality is gone" from the right are probably not the answer. We need to better educate teachers, parents, and administrators to the early warning signs so that the appropriate action can be taken. I agree that too many take the easy road of just medicating and pushing the problem to the side. We need to empower our teachers to act without retribution and frankly parents need to take more of a responsibility for the upbringing of their children. I do not expect schools to teach my kids value, morality or even religion-that's my job. I want the schools to teach subjects(Math, english, history) and enforce the moralities and ethics they have learned at home. Shame on the parents that do not fulfill their obligations.

Not to be self serving, but the parents on this site are a great example of how to be. We are active in our children's lives. We spend time with them and communicate with them. we have them active in a social environment with other people and put them in an activity that builds up their self-esteem(for their performance) They also learn that their are adults that care about them and who feel responsible for their welfare. Hug your kids is great advice- I just wish more parents would actually do it.

[Dugout Dad]

From Penn and Teller:

Good 30 min clip about our 2nd amendment right, warning - colorful language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dhXOuuHcjbs

[NumeroUno]

Great post jon

[Battle]

What I hope comes from this incident and after some of the emotions cool down is a rational discussion of how this happened and how to prevent it. "More Gun Control" from the left and "Our morality is gone" from the right are probably not the answer. We need to better educate teachers, parents, and administrators to the early warning signs so that the appropriate action can be taken.

What would better educated teachers, parents, and administrators have done to prevent this?

[jonriv]

What I hope comes from this incident and after some of the emotions cool down is a rational discussion of how this happened and how to prevent it. "More Gun Control" from the left and "Our morality is gone" from the right are probably not the answer. We need to better educate teachers, parents, and administrators to the early warning signs so that the appropriate action can be taken.

What would better educated teachers, parents, and administrators have done to prevent this?

To have gotten this "monster" the help he needed before becoming a monster. As mentioned before, a Secret Service study of these kinds of incidents have shown that the perpetrators all told someone before they committed the act. They all raised red flags over a long period of time that if picked up on and acted upon- might have prevented many of these incidents.