PGF goes on record

[jonriv]

You don't quite understand the issue. ASA is using its monopoly power in the relevant market (operating the Junior National Team) in a way that harms its competitors. Their conduct ultimately hurts all market particpiants, organizors and players. All the other softball organizations that provide opportunities for our girls to play in our free market economy as well as the players whose choice not to play in ASA sanctioned tournaments have now been deprived of the opportunity to play on the JNT should be troubled by this illegal misuse of the monopoly power held by ASA. It is not surprising that PGF, ASA's largest competitor, is willing to take the lead on stopping ASA's abuse of its monopoly, for the ultimate benefit of all organizations and players. It has the most skin in the game. ASA's conduct is a classic illegal tying arrangement. ASA is making consumers purchase a product over which they do not have monopoly power (i.e. pay to play in ASA sactioned tournament) as a condition to purchasing a product over which they have monopoly power (i.e. play on the JNT). It is an illegal use of power. And, yes, I am an attorney.

Does the fact that this is a non-profit marketplace have any bearing? What is the standard in other sports and their NGB's?

[AlwaysImprove]

You don't quite understand the issue. ASA is using its monopoly power in the relevant market (operating the Junior National Team) in a way that harms its competitors. Their conduct ultimately hurts all market particpiants, organizors and players. All the other softball organizations that provide opportunities for our girls to play in our free market economy as well as the players whose choice not to play in ASA sanctioned tournaments have now been deprived of the opportunity to play on the JNT should be troubled by this illegal misuse of the monopoly power held by ASA. It is not surprising that PGF, ASA's largest competitor, is willing to take the lead on stopping ASA's abuse of its monopoly, for the ultimate benefit of all organizations and players. It has the most skin in the game. ASA's conduct is a classic illegal tying arrangement. ASA is making consumers purchase a product over which they do not have monopoly power (i.e. pay to play in ASA sactioned tournament) as a condition to purchasing a product over which they have monopoly power (i.e. play on the JNT). It is an illegal use of power. And, yes, I am an attorney.

Does the fact that this is a non-profit marketplace have any bearing? What is the standard in other sports and their NGB's?

To me this is the easiest part. If USOC allowed organization to do what ASA is now trying to do, every single amateur sport would be dominated by one large non-profit, profit taking organization. Regardless of how stupid or confused that organization behaved, they would be in charge of the sport, because their stupidity is crowned by USOC. Thankfully that is not how the things have worked, that is why things will not play out the way ASA wants.

USOC would be dumb to put all of their eggs in the ASA basket.

I can tell you swimming, gymnastics, basketball, baseball, tennis all have competing organizations.

[AlwaysImprove]

As sad as this issue is...shoot me some numbers as to how many girls this will actually effect negatively.
How many kids that have the skills to play on jnt will be left out?

The original op makes it sound like there are thousands of girls that are getting thier hearts broken. What is the reality?

This is about pgf wanting some of the asa money pot. I'm not even saying that it is a bad thing but don't use the smoke and mirrors to make it look like something else. Call it like it is and folks might have more respect for pgf.
Nothin wrong with makin a buck.

ft

hmm.. lets see how long it takes the apologist to start crying foul.

No need to cry foul. You are missing the point. It effects the entire sport, basically everyone except the true slow pitch mentality, or C player.

Everyone competes in the sport to be the best. Getting selected as 'the best' is a direct outcome of the entire sport competing to be the best. It is an acknowledgment of the roll up from competition from 10yrs old, through 12's, 14's, to the point where kids are selected.

Having players selected based on cronyism erodes the entire system.

[BigSoftball]

You don't quite understand the issue. ASA is using its monopoly power in the relevant market (operating the Junior National Team) in a way that harms its competitors. Their conduct ultimately hurts all market particpiants, organizors and players. All the other softball organizations that provide opportunities for our girls to play in our free market economy as well as the players whose choice not to play in ASA sanctioned tournaments have now been deprived of the opportunity to play on the JNT should be troubled by this illegal misuse of the monopoly power held by ASA. It is not surprising that PGF, ASA's largest competitor, is willing to take the lead on stopping ASA's abuse of its monopoly, for the ultimate benefit of all organizations and players. It has the most skin in the game. ASA's conduct is a classic illegal tying arrangement. ASA is making consumers purchase a product over which they do not have monopoly power (i.e. pay to play in ASA sactioned tournament) as a condition to purchasing a product over which they have monopoly power (i.e. play on the JNT). It is an illegal use of power. And, yes, I am an attorney.

Does the fact that this is a non-profit marketplace have any bearing? What is the standard in other sports and their NGB's?

To me this is the easiest part. If USOC allowed organization to do what ASA is now trying to do, every single amateur sport would be dominated by one large non-profit, profit taking organization. Regardless of how stupid or confused that organization behaved, they would be in charge of the sport, because their stupidity is crowned by USOC. Thankfully that is not how the things have worked, that is why things will not play out the way ASA wants.

USOC would be dumb to put all of their eggs in the ASA basket.

I can tell you swimming, gymnastics, basketball, baseball, tennis all have competing organizations.

Does the NGB of swimming and gymnastics hold sanctioned events in which athletes must participate in order to qualify for the national team? Of course they do. Most sports do. Are they all illegal?

[Trophy Hunter]

As sad as this issue is...shoot me some numbers as to how many girls this will actually effect negatively.
How many kids that have the skills to play on jnt will be left out?

The original op makes it sound like there are thousands of girls that are getting thier hearts broken. What is the reality?

This is about pgf wanting some of the asa money pot. I'm not even saying that it is a bad thing but don't use the smoke and mirrors to make it look like something else. Call it like it is and folks might have more respect for pgf.
Nothin wrong with makin a buck.

ft

hmm.. lets see how long it takes the apologist to start crying foul.

No need to cry foul. You are missing the point. It effects the entire sport, basically everyone except the true slow pitch mentality, or C player.

Everyone competes in the sport to be the best. Getting selected as 'the best' is a direct outcome of the entire sport competing to be the best. It is an acknowledgment of the roll up from competition from 10yrs old, through 12's, 14's, to the point where kids are selected.

Having players selected based on cronyism erodes the entire system.

Isn't this how PGF selects many of the teams for their tournament?

btw, there is always politics/cronyism involved when selecting players for these teams.

[Grey Beard]

The antitrust laws are meant to govern and promote competition. But how antitrust law should treat nonprofit organizations, whose objectives lie outside the commercial sphere but whose actions nevertheless have economic consequences, is not settled. In this particular context, where for profit competitors and their participants are being harmed by the nonprofit organization, I believe the for profit competitors have the better side of the legal argument. They certianly have the moral high ground.

[Grey Beard]

In fact, ASA's action is a sign of desperation. In 2 short years it has become almost irrelevant (at least on the west coast). It does not know what else to do to compete in a market that it has lost overnight to an upstart competitor. Sad in a way, but true. This is America where the more innovative, whose product consumers want, are supposed to win.

[Trophy Hunter]

In fact, ASA's action is a sign of desperation. In 2 short years it has become almost irrelevant (at least on the west coast). It does not know what else to do to compete in a market that it has lost overnight to an upstart competitor. Sad in a way, but true. This is America where the more innovative, whose product consumers want, are supposed to win.

You may want to have a paralegal review that last sentence.

[PDad]

To me this is the easiest part. If USOC allowed organization to do what ASA is now trying to do, every single amateur sport would be dominated by one large non-profit, profit taking organization. Regardless of how stupid or confused that organization behaved, they would be in charge of the sport, because their stupidity is crowned by USOC. Thankfully that is not how the things have worked, that is why things will not play out the way ASA wants.

USOC would be dumb to put all of their eggs in the ASA basket.

I can tell you swimming, gymnastics, basketball, baseball, tennis all have competing organizations.

Does the NGB of swimming and gymnastics hold sanctioned events in which athletes must participate in order to qualify for the national team? Of course they do. Most sports do. Are they all illegal?

I doubt anyone is disputing USA Softball's right to hold a final selection camp for the team. The issue is how they identify the candidates that are invited to the camp. I also doubt people would have a problem with them operating regional camps where INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS can register to be evaluated. A flaw in ASA's identification process is using their own TEAM competitions where TEAMS have to qualify to participate. I don't know of another sport with a team qualification barrier that excludes individuals from being identified.

[Trophy Hunter]

You don't quite understand the issue. ASA is using its monopoly power in the relevant market (operating the Junior National Team) in a way that harms its competitors. Their conduct ultimately hurts all market particpiants, organizors and players. All the other softball organizations that provide opportunities for our girls to play in our free market economy as well as the players whose choice not to play in ASA sanctioned tournaments have now been deprived of the opportunity to play on the JNT should be troubled by this illegal misuse of the monopoly power held by ASA. It is not surprising that PGF, ASA's largest competitor, is willing to take the lead on stopping ASA's abuse of its monopoly, for the ultimate benefit of all organizations and players. It has the most skin in the game. ASA's conduct is a classic illegal tying arrangement. ASA is making consumers purchase a product over which they do not have monopoly power (i.e. pay to play in ASA sactioned tournament) as a condition to purchasing a product over which they have monopoly power (i.e. play on the JNT). It is an illegal use of power. And, yes, I am an attorney.

The real issue is the pissing contest between PGF and ASA, and that is about money, ego, and control.

PGF, and you apparently, would have us believe the pretense that this particular dispute is about all players, teams, and orgs, when it's really just PGF using a relative handful of kids who play for Haning and his friends as foils to further their own interests. How this plays out will have little impact on the game as a whole, if any at all. But it does have some entertainment value.