Shame on you PGF!!!

[PDad]

The way the berths are being passed down helped these individuals get to this situation.

If all teams are still eligible for a passed down berth, then the rosters should be frozen until all berths have been accounted for.

I guess one solution would be to make teams accept the berth at the time they qualify, or lose it and pass it down then, rather than wait 3 or 4 weeks.

This was not the same situation as what happened in Texas where declined berths were passed down. This issue was caused by at-large berths that were extended to fill-in for canceled qualifiers.

Teams are required to accept or decline the berth when they qualify. PGF needs to require teams back it up by collecting a nonrefundable entry fee at the time of acceptance.

[CULater]

The way the berths are being passed down helped these individuals get to this situation.

If all teams are still eligible for a passed down berth, then the rosters should be frozen until all berths have been accounted for.

I guess one solution would be to make teams accept the berth at the time they qualify, or lose it and pass it down then, rather than wait 3 or 4 weeks.

This was not the same situation as what happened in Texas where declined berths were passed down. This issue was caused by at-large berths that were extended to fill-in for canceled qualifiers.

Teams are required to accept or decline the berth when they qualify. PGF needs to require teams back it up by collecting a nonrefundable entry fee at the time of acceptance.

I understand the difference. But when you are not getting all of your qualifiers filled, do you really have the clout to demand payment at the time of acceptance.

[ontheblack]

@CUlater,

It's not about clout. Most teams know when they enter what their intentions are with regard to moving on in championship play. I think this bit PGF last year when they learned at the last minute that an out of state 14U team that had earned a berth wasn't coming and they had to scramble a few days before to find a team to fill the spot.

Regardless, this really isn't about two team's dramatics, but about clarifying rules. Creating rules that account for every scenario takes time and few entities get it right from the start.

[rukidding]

I think you can end up in this situation and not have to vilify the coaches or the players. If Team A played in their last scheduled qualifier, and failed to qualify, and then choose to play in a less tournament or end their season, these kids would be right to seek out other PGF qualified teams. In fact the rules directly encourage it.

After these players were already on Team B, PGF calls Team and offers a berth. So far, everyone is behaving exactly as you would expect them to behave, as you would want them to behave.

Now the question is do you require those players to quit Team B, and go back to A? It is a sticky situation, and probably pretty rare. That is why you have a PGF board. To look into the situation, weigh the poor evidence that is available and render a decision which will be certainly criticized.

AI has hit the nail on the head as this is how it actually happened.

[PDad]

The way the berths are being passed down helped these individuals get to this situation.

If all teams are still eligible for a passed down berth, then the rosters should be frozen until all berths have been accounted for.

I guess one solution would be to make teams accept the berth at the time they qualify, or lose it and pass it down then, rather than wait 3 or 4 weeks.

This was not the same situation as what happened in Texas where declined berths were passed down. This issue was caused by at-large berths that were extended to fill-in for canceled qualifiers.

Teams are required to accept or decline the berth when they qualify. PGF needs to require teams back it up by collecting a nonrefundable entry fee at the time of acceptance.

I understand the difference. But when you are not getting all of your qualifiers filled, do you really have the clout to demand payment at the time of acceptance.

That's two unrelated issues and the canceled qualifiers are only at the newest age groups.

Teams are either at a qualifier to earn a berth or not. An acceptance without commitment is worthless. Money talks and BS walks...

[AlwaysImprove]

@CUlater,

It's not about clout. Most teams know when they enter what their intentions are with regard to moving on in championship play. I think this bit PGF last year when they learned at the last minute that an out of state 14U team that had earned a berth wasn't coming and they had to scramble a few days before to find a team to fill the spot.

Regardless, this really isn't about two team's dramatics, but about clarifying rules. Creating rules that account for every scenario takes time and few entities get it right from the start.

I disagree that you have to have 100% clear and complete rules for every possible situation. You should have rules that cover most of the common cases, and have a board that addresses issues as they arise. If you do not trust the board, play in a different association, there are plenty to pick from.

Yes this is a dramatic situation for this team, for these players and families. It will not be the last dramatic situation for these folks. Also, will not be the last time drama comes up in softball.

Also this pales in comparison to what these girls face as they get to be 16,17,18, like drugs, teen age pregnancy, college. It was not clear to me when my kid was 12, but it is way more clear now. Those that wrap up in the drama too much, will not need to worry much about softball, rules, how their team got wrecked by a coach or by some players. Kids from parents that engage in the drama always seem to get way busy with things way worse.

So while it is hard, make sure you spend most of your energy maintaining perspective, it will pay dividends in the future.

[biggun]

Thats proud coaches wife to you! LMAO! i could care less what parents say, its their opinions not fact annnd i said that it WAS parents saying it. all of this is wah wah wah the girls are playing with the team, get over it, not because of special favors, because thats what was decided based on their interpretation of the rules. i could care less who you pick on, im not a pushover so it doesnt concern me in the least.

[Trophy Hunter]

I think you can end up in this situation and not have to vilify the coaches or the players. If Team A played in their last scheduled qualifier, and failed to qualify, and then choose to play in a less tournament or end their season, these kids would be right to seek out other PGF qualified teams. In fact the rules directly encourage it.

So if a team doesn't qualify for PGF everyone should leave the team even if the team chooses to play in a "less" tournament, and the PGF tournament directors should encourage them?

Your post solidifies you as a moronic PGF stooge and Heybucket's resident buffoon. What cave did they find you in? Seriously. What a arrogant worthless spew of ignorant nonsense.

[CULater]

The way the berths are being passed down helped these individuals get to this situation.

If all teams are still eligible for a passed down berth, then the rosters should be frozen until all berths have been accounted for.

I guess one solution would be to make teams accept the berth at the time they qualify, or lose it and pass it down then, rather than wait 3 or 4 weeks.

This was not the same situation as what happened in Texas where declined berths were passed down. This issue was caused by at-large berths that were extended to fill-in for canceled qualifiers.

Teams are required to accept or decline the berth when they qualify. PGF needs to require teams back it up by collecting a nonrefundable entry fee at the time of acceptance.

I understand the difference. But when you are not getting all of your qualifiers filled, do you really have the clout to demand payment at the time of acceptance.

That's two unrelated issues and the canceled qualifiers are only at the newest age groups.

Teams are either at a qualifier to earn a berth or not. An acceptance without commitment is worthless. Money talks and BS walks...

I agree teams are there to earn a berth. And those same teams were at other qualifers for other organizations to earn a berth there too. One is a priority and one is a contingency. But when there is an alternative, demanding payment, before all a team's alternatives are exhausted, may not get you the result you want. This is true for PGF or ASA.

[ontheblack]

@CUlater,

It's not about clout. Most teams know when they enter what their intentions are with regard to moving on in championship play. I think this bit PGF last year when they learned at the last minute that an out of state 14U team that had earned a berth wasn't coming and they had to scramble a few days before to find a team to fill the spot.

Regardless, this really isn't about two team's dramatics, but about clarifying rules. Creating rules that account for every scenario takes time and few entities get it right from the start.

I disagree that you have to have 100% clear and complete rules for every possible situation. You should have rules that cover most of the common cases, and have a board that addresses issues as they arise. If you do not trust the board, play in a different association, there are plenty to pick from.

Yes this is a dramatic situation for this team, for these players and families. It will not be the last dramatic situation for these folks. Also, will not be the last time drama comes up in softball.

Also this pales in comparison to what these girls face as they get to be 16,17,18, like drugs, teen age pregnancy, college. It was not clear to me when my kid was 12, but it is way more clear now. Those that wrap up in the drama too much, will not need to worry much about softball, rules, how their team got wrecked by a coach or by some players. Kids from parents that engage in the drama always seem to get way busy with things way worse.

So while it is hard, make sure you spend most of your energy maintaining perspective, it will pay dividends in the future.

I didnt say rules have to be 100% clear and infallible for every situation. Thats pretty close to impossible. Im saying PGF did the best they could to start and refining them takes time. I would bet that when they initially published them they didnt expect invited and at large berths to be as big a part of the process as they are at the moment.