everyone please listen

[fastpitchdad05]

I would hardly consider a gang in Afghanistan the average Muslim on on the street(maybe the dirt road or barren hiilside)

I am just curious what the answer is then- just kill them all? since there is obviously no hope??

The average muslim on the street wants the same thing most of us want- a decent life for themselves and their family and to be left alone. Which is what I think most people in the world want.

Then maybe the average muslim should get off his ass and make a stand against those who are waging war in the name of Islam. Doing nothing makes them all complicit and, paradoxically, vulnerable to the inevitable consequences.

TH - I agree that it sometimes feels that way, but if you go to Google and put muslims speak out against extremists in the search, I think you'll see that it's not as uncommon as it seems.

[Trophy Hunter]

I would hardly consider a gang in Afghanistan the average Muslim on on the street(maybe the dirt road or barren hiilside)

I am just curious what the answer is then- just kill them all? since there is obviously no hope??

The average muslim on the street wants the same thing most of us want- a decent life for themselves and their family and to be left alone. Which is what I think most people in the world want.

Then maybe the average muslim should get off his ass and make a stand against those who are waging war in the name of Islam. Doing nothing makes them all complicit and, paradoxically, vulnerable to the inevitable consequences.

TH - I agree that it sometimes feels that way, but if you go to Google and put muslims speak out against extremists in the search, I think you'll see that it's not as uncommon as it seems.

They aren't the average muslim either. In the end, the extremists carry the day and continue to loom as a threat to international security in the name of Islam. Which puts all of Islam in the proverbial cross-hairs. If the moderates don't like it, they need to do more to countermand the extremists.

[fastpitchdad05]

I would hardly consider a gang in Afghanistan the average Muslim on on the street(maybe the dirt road or barren hiilside)

I am just curious what the answer is then- just kill them all? since there is obviously no hope??

The average muslim on the street wants the same thing most of us want- a decent life for themselves and their family and to be left alone. Which is what I think most people in the world want.

Then maybe the average muslim should get off his ass and make a stand against those who are waging war in the name of Islam. Doing nothing makes them all complicit and, paradoxically, vulnerable to the inevitable consequences.

TH - I agree that it sometimes feels that way, but if you go to Google and put muslims speak out against extremists in the search, I think you'll see that it's not as uncommon as it seems.

I shouldn't have to google it. I should see enough examples in everyday media to not feel like they all support the actions of the so called extremists.. Bombs go off everyday and it takes a "special report" to find one person that says it doesn't represent the majority od Islam .

C'mon Spaz...you're smarter than that. The mainstream media's goal is the same as any other business - make money. Sadly (but true) the good guy stories don't sell like terror, mayhem and death.

Don't hold your breath if you're looking for stories on CNN or FOX about the non-extremists condemning the extremists, because unless there's bloodshed included it's just too boring. Unfortunately, you have to look for those yourself. Fortunately, in these days of high-speed internet its not that hard.

For example, earlier I slammed Catholicism when I eluded to the molestation of the young boys by Catholic clergymen. But in fairness, I feel certain that for every incident of molestation by these horrible representatives of the church there are a thousand examples of clergymen doing positive and wonderful things in and for people's lives.

But do we hear about that on CNN or FOX or any major news outlet? Not even close to the times we hear about the molestations.

As with almost anything...it's all about the money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o

"Kick 'em when they're up...kick 'em when they're down."

[Sid Barrett]

Jonriv, simply put...you are a moron...AND your wrong!

The Ottoman Empire were the caretakers of the Islamic Caliphate. Yes, just like you mentioned, they conquered (or attempted to) for power and to gain territory, but they did so in the name of Allah. Is that a hallmark of a peaceful religion? The only reason they stopped conquering is because The Spanish and other western countries kicked their asses.

And as far as only splinter groups conducting asymetric warfare .....You are again WRONG! Does the name Muammar Gaddafi mean anything to you, or The Islamic Republic of Iran?

Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. In other words, pull your head out of your a$$

[jonriv]

Jonriv, simply put...you are a moron...AND your wrong!

The Ottoman Empire were the caretakers of the Islamic Caliphate. Yes, just like you mentioned, they conquered (or attempted to) for power and to gain territory, but they did so in the name of Allah. Is that a hallmark of a peaceful religion? The only reason they stopped conquering is because The Spanish and other western countries kicked their asses.

And as far as only splinter groups and not states, conducting asymetric warfare .....You are again WRONG! Does the name Muammar Gaddafi mean anything to you, or The Islamic Republic of Iran?

Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. In other words, pull your head out of your a$$

The Ottoman empire spread their empire no more for "allah" than the Spanish, English or French Empires did for Christ- the push was for power-not religion. Was the US "Manifest Destiny" based on faith. The became the caretakers of the caliphate because it suited them politically

As far as Libya& Iran- yes they back, funded splinter groups- but again for Political gain-

As far as the placement of my head and name calling. I am not ignorant to think radical islam poses no threat. I am not ignorant to understand that many throughout history have veiled themselves in religion for political reasons and gain. I am also smart enough to know the ignorance in condemning an entire religion sue to the misguided action of a very small minority. Continuing such stereotypes does NOTHING to solve anything.

I have several friends in the military that have had several tours in both Iraq & Afghanistan- they have a far better understanding of Islam and compassion for the people in that part of the world than you will ever have. I have several co-workers who have spent decades working in the middle east(Egypt, Lebanan, Saudi Arabia, Qater & UAE)- they would agree in the lunacy of painting all moslems with radical islam brush

[Sid Barrett]

I'm sure there are two entire continents full of Mezo-Americans who were forcibly converted into Catholics who will disagree with your assertion that Imperial Spain was only in it for the land. Just like I'm sure the State of Israel will take umbrage with your claim that Iran backs and supports Hezb'allah strictly for political reasons.

J/R just give it up. I'm pretty sure the mercy rule is in effect now. If you read the Koran, and yes I have read an abridged English translated version, you will see that the basic tenants, as written in the Koran, of taxing non-muslims and the recognition of only Sharia Law, are in direct conflict with the value system of the United States of America. So keep wearing your kid gloves and continue with your political correctness. Apparently 9/11 was not enough to wake you up.

[jonriv]

I'm sure there are two entire continents full of Mezo-Americans who were forcibly converted into Catholics who will disagree with your assertion that Imperial Spain was only in it for the land. Just like I'm sure the State of Israel will take umbrage with your claim that Iran backs and supports Hezb'allah strictly for political reasons.

J/R just give it up. I'm pretty sure the mercy rule is in effect now. If you read the Koran, and yes I have read an abridged English translated version, you will see that the basic tenants, as written in the Koran, of taxing non-muslims and the recognition of only Sharia Law, are in direct conflict with the value system of the United States of America. So keep wearing your kid gloves and continue with your political correctness. Apparently 9/11 was not enough to wake you up.

Sid- I was trained as a paratrooper- we do not "give up"

Spain conquered the New World for 2 reasons-

1) A quicker route for spices(failed)

2) GOLD

Conversion of the Indians to Christianity for them was a "side benefit"- not any primary push

Iran, with all its faults(an there are many) supports Hezbollah purely for political reasons. Their issue is with Israel as a state and Zionism- not Judaism

You obviously pick and choose to read parts of the Koran as it suits you and obviously out of context(you are not alone- many radicals moslems do the same- as do some with the Bible) The Tax on non-muslims you mention goes hand in hand with an offering(tax) on Muslims as well

Sharia law is in effect(an very different place to place) in a small number of Moslem countries. Shari is banned in Turkey. The most extreme being Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. Iran's version is also very extreme- but women(despite the need to cover-up in public etc) actually play a very powerful role in Iranian society. Iran is the only theocracy in the Moslem world.

As I have mentioned before- Sharia law has no place in the US- it's unconstitutional. There is no mention of Shari law in the Koran- it was developed by men and and is an interpretation of God's will, but by men. Many Moslems find Sharia barbaric and prehistoric. You wish to label all moslems with your ignorance- in many ways you very similar to the radical moslems.

As far a 9/11 goes- I live in the NY Metro area and work in the financial services industry. I was on a conference call when the fist tower was hit- a woman on that call's husband(who took a job at Cantor Fitzgerald a week before) was in the building. I still remember her saying "Oh my God, Andy is there, I have to go!" He died- I went to his funeral and several others in the following weeks and months. My town had one of the highest death rates in those attacks-please don't preach to me or use that event as a way of pushing your ignorance. It degrades their memory.

I neither have Kid Gloves and I am far from Politically Correct- as far as the radical moslems and terrorists that wish us harm- kill the all!! I just don't see the logic or the facts to condemn all moslems by the actions of a few. What would you do Sid- kill them all?? What about the Turks(our Allies for 50 years) etc...

Alo- why the Ozzy picture for Sid Barrett?(Lost at the Gates of Delirium?

[Sid Barrett]

In an earlier post you cited the atrocities of the Spanish and how they imposed their religion on the Incas and the Aztecs....and now you dismiss their actions as a "side benefit". Spin it anyway you want, the Spanish conquered in the name of Christ, just like the Ottomans did in the name of Allah. These are facts, despite the spin you try to put on them.

As far as Iran goes, they (the theocracy) make no distinction between a "political" motivation and a religious one. That is why they are the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of Iran (emphasis on Islamic). A-majad has stated several times that "Allah wills it", referring to the destruction of Israel. That doesn't really sound "politically" motivated to me.

Sharia law ( wether written in the Koran or the Sunnah) is clearly in direct conflict with the values of the United States. So your question of what do we do, Kill 'em all? Obviously not. It is not a politically correct answer, but I believe that all Muslims should be viewed with suspicion. How do WE erase OUR suspicion of them. The answer is: We don't. The onus is not on us. If the Muslim world does not want to be viewed with suspicion by the West, the onus is on them to collectively act in a manner to erase suspicion. One way they can accomplish that is for so-called "moderate" Muslims (which essentially means they are are willing to live outside of the written tenants of their faith) to disavow terrorist acts or the misdeeds of those who claim to be acting in the name of their faith. Unfortunately the vast majority of Muslims have not done this and don't appear willing to. Even worse, there are examples of "moderate" Muslims who speak out against such acts in public but privately support such acts.

Another way that Muslims can erase suspicion from the West is that Muslims who live in Western Countries should abide by the laws of that country and cease all attempts to erect "special" Sharia courts or justice systems. Wether they live in France, England or Dearborn Michigan, the laws of that county apply to them, Muslim or not.

I can go on about how Muslims can erase the suspicion of the West but that would bore the bucketeers more than they are already bored by this thread.....so I won't.

As for the Ozzy Avatar? Just a fan. I will probably get bored with it and change it to a photo of Lemmy.

[carolinafan]

The way his letter should have been written


So your question of what do we do, Kill 'em all? Obviously not. It is not a politically correct answer, but I believe that all Republicans should be viewed with suspicion. How do WE erase OUR suspicion of them. The answer is: We don't. The onus is not on us. If the Republican world does not want to be viewed with suspicion by the East and West Coasts, the onus is on them to collectively act in a manner to erase suspicion. One way they can accomplish that is for so-called "moderate" Republicans (which essentially means they are are willing to live outside of the written tenants of their faith/making money at all costs) to disavow terrorist acts or the misdeeds of those who claim to be acting in the name of their faith. Unfortunately the vast majority of Republicans have not done this and don't appear willing to. Even worse, there are examples of "moderate" Republicans who speak out against such acts in public but privately support such acts.

[DonnieS]

Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East,
PEACE

http://youtu.be/6CG2NPkIKRM

Black Widow, GFYS. Figure it out.