Try out dilemma

[Vess Express]

But it is still curious that when they are racing against themselves, as in ' times to 1st base ', they are not dogging it ...While when they are in a group of runners they are happy to run in the middle or back of the pack when they are capable of leading the pack based on their individual times ... I've not really noticed this phenomenon previously ... Is it because the spot light is not on them ? Does it indicate they are not a team player ... Are a team player ? Will they push harder to beat out a single than the less talented players who I see trying harder ? OR ... is it that these less talented players are actually even pushing harder when direct competition with who they may perceive as a superior player ?????? AND ... the more talented player is .... I"M SO CONFUSED !!!! [/quote]


My DD is fairly fast, and I have noticed her doing the things you are talking about. In my DDs case, she will first test the other girl's speed discreetly, like during warm ups when nobody is really watching. Then, she will go all out to try and outrun anyone she thinks has the ability to beat her. Once she knows she is faster, she will not try that hard again unless it is game time, or some kind of official time is being kept.

It makes no sense to me or my husband, and we have told her that, but teenagers are not that bright. At least in my DDs case, there is no rhyme or reason for what she's doing, so it's not surprising that this action is confusing!

[jonriv]

[quote]It makes no sense to me or my husband, and we have told her that, but teenagers are not that bright. At least in my DDs case, there is no rhyme or reason for what she's doing, so it's not surprising that this action is confusing!
/quote]



I know it is early, but this may be the quote of the year!!!

[Sam]

In the end, it all boils down to one thing. Did the coach help his/her players improve during the time he/she had them under their tutelage.....if they improved, it was a job well done....if they improved by leaps and bounds, awesome job.....if they won a lot of games along the way, that is an added bonus. Coaching is about teaching and passing some bit of information that helps the kid improve as a player, but mostly as a person....jmho.
/quote]

Right on Sam!

Everyone is saying that the bottom line is that if a coach helps their player improve then they are doing good, yet you are also saying that your way is the only right way. That sounds a little hipocritical to me. Who says that the coach that has a set rotation, not just 9 players but a set rotation and never changes that is not improving the players. Granted the last 3-4 on the end of the bench may not get in the game but I guarantee you they are getting better by practicing with the others every day. At our HS the Varsity and the JV practice together and every kid does every drill and every task that the top players do. The Seniors that are on Varsity because they are Seniors may never get in the game but that is the way it works. The Freshman that is on Varsity because she is fast gets to run and thats it. If any player practices and beats out the Varsity starter she will play,but if she does not beat them out she will not. Every player on the team, Varsity and JV would rather be on this team because it is a great PROGAM rather than start on a lesser team. And yes just like the team in G's example this produced a State Championship also.

I'm trying to figure out if you even bothered to actually read my post.

Surely the HS your kid attends has a different approach, one which 999 out of 1000 HS coaches would never implement....but it has worked there.....but that isn't to say that another approach may have worked just as well or better. You don't really know that EVERY player in the program would rather be at your school vs starting at another school...unless you took a survey. I can guarantee you that the parents would produce a different number.

The point is that coaching is much more art than science and should be appreciated as such.

Yes I actually did read the post but my comments were based on comments that others had made. If they strayed off the path that you intended that is not my issue. And yes you are the one that said it was BS and you are again saying that by saying that 999 out of 1000 coaches would not implenent it. You stating that and turining around and saying that there is no way I would know what the players and the parents in the program feel is again showing your hypocrity because you also would have no way of knowing what 999 out of 1000 coaches would do without taking a survey.

A. It's HYPOCRISY, not hypocrity
B. You are proposing that having the USA National Team practice with a Gold team every day somehow makes the National Team better....uhhhh....no. Your coach chose to do that and the team ended up winning. Do YOU know of another coach that does this? I don't and I know a lot of coaches. Coaches don't do this because it brings down the level of play of the upper team. Oh, its a great solution for the JV team because they get better playing with better players, but great players will play down if they are dealing with the play of JV players every day at practice. The goal, in HS, is for each school to have a great varsity team, not a great JV team. Maybe they have the JV playoffs where you are.....where they win the JV Championship.....I'm pretty sure that 1000 out of 1000 HS's don't participate in the JV playoffs and don't have a JV Championship trophy in their collection of school athletic wares.

[Iluvblue]

Sam is 100% dead on.

Our HS team had

1st base San Jose State
2nd base.... commit to UCLA
ss......... Williamette
Catcher........... Texas Southern
3rd Base........... Purdue IU... UI Not sure
Pitcher......... CSU Humboldt
LF recently verbaled (not sure where)
and CF could have easily played college and chose to not play in college.

I stayed away from the JV team as much as possible. Those kids could have actually gotten hurt if we practiced together. It was a lose, lose for the varsity team, as any time spent with the JV was surely not productive.

[Realist]

In the end, it all boils down to one thing. Did the coach help his/her players improve during the time he/she had them under their tutelage.....if they improved, it was a job well done....if they improved by leaps and bounds, awesome job.....if they won a lot of games along the way, that is an added bonus. Coaching is about teaching and passing some bit of information that helps the kid improve as a player, but mostly as a person....jmho.
/quote]

Right on Sam!

Everyone is saying that the bottom line is that if a coach helps their player improve then they are doing good, yet you are also saying that your way is the only right way. That sounds a little hipocritical to me. Who says that the coach that has a set rotation, not just 9 players but a set rotation and never changes that is not improving the players. Granted the last 3-4 on the end of the bench may not get in the game but I guarantee you they are getting better by practicing with the others every day. At our HS the Varsity and the JV practice together and every kid does every drill and every task that the top players do. The Seniors that are on Varsity because they are Seniors may never get in the game but that is the way it works. The Freshman that is on Varsity because she is fast gets to run and thats it. If any player practices and beats out the Varsity starter she will play,but if she does not beat them out she will not. Every player on the team, Varsity and JV would rather be on this team because it is a great PROGAM rather than start on a lesser team. And yes just like the team in G's example this produced a State Championship also.

I'm trying to figure out if you even bothered to actually read my post.

Surely the HS your kid attends has a different approach, one which 999 out of 1000 HS coaches would never implement....but it has worked there.....but that isn't to say that another approach may have worked just as well or better. You don't really know that EVERY player in the program would rather be at your school vs starting at another school...unless you took a survey. I can guarantee you that the parents would produce a different number.

The point is that coaching is much more art than science and should be appreciated as such.

Yes I actually did read the post but my comments were based on comments that others had made. If they strayed off the path that you intended that is not my issue. And yes you are the one that said it was BS and you are again saying that by saying that 999 out of 1000 coaches would not implenent it. You stating that and turining around and saying that there is no way I would know what the players and the parents in the program feel is again showing your hypocrity because you also would have no way of knowing what 999 out of 1000 coaches would do without taking a survey.

A. It's HYPOCRISY, not hypocrity
B. You are proposing that having the USA National Team practice with a Gold team every day somehow makes the National Team better....uhhhh....no. Your coach chose to do that and the team ended up winning. Do YOU know of another coach that does this? I don't and I know a lot of coaches. Coaches don't do this because it brings down the level of play of the upper team. Oh, its a great solution for the JV team because they get better playing with better players, but great players will play down if they are dealing with the play of JV players every day at practice. The goal, in HS, is for each school to have a great varsity team, not a great JV team. Maybe they have the JV playoffs where you are.....where they win the JV Championship.....I'm pretty sure that 1000 out of 1000 HS's don't participate in the JV playoffs and don't have a JV Championship trophy in their collection of school athletic wares.

I stayed away from this all day because for some reason I have turned out to be the bad guy and no one thinks that what was done works at all. To Blue's point our HS team had

1B University of Houston
2B University of Houston
SS Louisiana Monroe
3B Blinn
LF Galveston College
CF McNeese
RF Stephen F Austin
C Louisisana Monroe
P UCLA

None of the JV have been killed yet and the program is the winningest program in the state of Texas for the last 6 years.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Like when the less talented player is diving for 9 out ot 10 balls on the infield.


I could not agree with this more. I love it when an outfielder dives for a ball that they should have caught standing up and the crowd goes crazy. When they come in, I make sure to let them know if they had done it the right way, they would have caught it standing up.

Ive had kids that go to thei rknees on every grounder... I make sure to break them of that habit.

Not at all what I'm talking about ...

[GIMNEPIWO]

But it is still curious that when they are racing against themselves, as in ' times to 1st base ', they are not dogging it ...While when they are in a group of runners they are happy to run in the middle or back of the pack when they are capable of leading the pack based on their individual times ... I've not really noticed this phenomenon previously ... Is it because the spot light is not on them ? Does it indicate they are not a team player ... Are a team player ? Will they push harder to beat out a single than the less talented players who I see trying harder ? OR ... is it that these less talented players are actually even pushing harder when direct competition with who they may perceive as a superior player ?????? AND ... the more talented player is .... I"M SO CONFUSED !!!!

My DD is fairly fast, and I have noticed her doing the things you are talking about. In my DDs case, she will first test the other girl's speed discreetly, like during warm ups when nobody is really watching. Then, she will go all out to try and outrun anyone she thinks has the ability to beat her. Once she knows she is faster, she will not try that hard again unless it is game time, or some kind of official time is being kept.It makes no sense to me or my husband, and we have told her that, but teenagers are not that bright. At least in my DDs case, there is no rhyme or reason for what she's doing, so it's not surprising that this action is confusing![/quote]

... Alrighty then ... interesting ... We have raised 5 DD's and I've coached for years ... And the only thing that I'm sure of is that there isn't enough beer in the world ... Combining your post with what others have said ... These players may be playing down to the less talented players level ... I know this happens in games but have never actually seen it in practice / conditionings ...

[CheckWriter]

Here is a possible explanation (don't jump on me, I've never coached this game):

If there is somebody that is fairly obviously the fastest, the wouldn't come across as a show off or brown noser if they out ran everybody every time? Maybe they are trying to avoid "rubbing it in"?

[GIMNEPIWO]

Here is a possible explanation (don't jump on me, I've never coached this game):

If there is somebody that is fairly obviously the fastest, the wouldn't come across as a show off or brown noser if they out ran everybody every time? Maybe they are trying to avoid "rubbing it in"?

I suppose it is possible ... But to clarify ... It is NOT just in the running drills where this is taking place ... I see it in the calesthenics and fielding as well ... I'm not refering to the diving for balls that don't need to be dove for as described by some posters though ...

[Vess Express]

Here is a possible explanation (don't jump on me, I've never coached this game):

If there is somebody that is fairly obviously the fastest, the wouldn't come across as a show off or brown noser if they out ran everybody every time? Maybe they are trying to avoid "rubbing it in"?

I think you're right. That is probably a big part of what they're thinking.



G-
The diving for balls situation, I just used as an example of what may be "un-motivating" to the talented players if it draws unwarranted attention.

And whether it's running, fielding, or calesthenics, if one girl is much above the others in whatever it is, they seem to downplay their abilities unless it counts to them (i.e game, timed). You may want them to show the others how to do things, but that is not what is on their minds. They just want to practice like all the others. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying what I have seen.