High School Ball

[Rotatorcuff]

This is from the green book, specifically bylaw 600.1 (special rule for San Diego Section):

b. Outside Team - During a San Diego Section athlete’s season of sport, he or she may not participate or practice on an outside team in the same sport (Approved January 21, 2003 Board of Managers). For the purpose of this rule, an outside team is defined as a non-CIF team consisting of half or more of the number of players required to start a contest by the respective National Federation rules book. Tackle football is considered to be a sport separate from touch or flag football. Examples of outside team sports that would be in conflict include (but not limited to) 3 on 3-basketball, slow pitch softball. Examples of outside team sports that would not be in conflict would be 2-person volleyball, 5 on 5-indoor soccer, and over-the-line softball.

As an only exception, athletes participating in the individual sports of swimming, diving, and gymnastics may practice during their season of sport, as unattached athletes, with club teams, which are established under the National Governing Board for that sport, so long as the athlete also practices with the school team, and the athlete is entered to compete as anunattached athlete in the CIF-approved competitions at Bylaw 600. (Approved June 3, 2003 Board of Managers)
NOTE: Tryouts for club teams during the high school season of sport are not permitted. Practices during the high school season of sport with less than one-half of the outside team are considered a violation of this bylaw.

I read a little further down and noticed the NOTE. This seems to be in direct conflict with the rule. I orignially asked, "Am I interpreting it correctly by saying a softball player could practice/workout with three other team members (less than half needed for a competition) from their outside team and still be in compliance with this rule?" According to the rule, this would be true, however the NOTE clearly states it is in violation. Which is it?

I'm dumbfounded as to how this can be published. Can someone explain this rule, without a contradicting NOTE added at the end?

[Iluvblue]

The rule is clarifying what IS and what IS NOT considered a team that would violate the rule.

For example, 2 on 2 basketball would not be a violation or considered an outside team. 3 on 3 basketball would be considered an outside team that would violate the rule. So any type of softball that would use 5 players, would be a team that would violate this rule.


Then, to nail those that find a way around the rule, teams probably started to practice with their club players in groups of 4 (less than the half needed to start a team) thinking they would be ok and not be in violation of the rule. The SD section then clarified that even practicing with 3 members of a club team would be in violation of the rule.

There is a way around it. I can give lessons to a player and they cant stop that. So I would charge the player 1 dollar for the practice and say I am giving them private instruction. id probably lose and the player would be declared ineligible or have to forfeit games. I would then sue the SD section and they would lose. There is no way they would win this suit IMO. Im shocked nobody has tried to challenge this in court.

[Iluvblue]

If someone from .... say soccer sued over this rule, and won, why hasnt the lawsuit findings been placed on all sports?


By the way, in our area SJS in norcal), girls soccer IS allowed to play club soccer during the HS season. This is because several years ago a lawsuit forced girls soccer to move from the winter to the Spring and thus throwing the club soccer recruiting tournaments completely out of whack. So the CIF has allowed soccer to still play club soccer as they always had during the Spring while the HS season is going on. I believe there is another sport that is allowed to do this... but I cant remember the sport.

While the reasoning is obvious, a softball player (and coach like me) could care less what the reason is. All I know is that a soccer player plays by a different set of rules then a softball player. Any softball player that sued the section would also win. Soccer has shown that the club season and the HS season can coincide together with no real loss.

Not sure why nobody has sued over this. I suspect the day will come.

[coachEd]

Hey Blue, you are not allowed to use the "S" word on heybucket.

[Iluvblue]

coached... but that "S" word could be salvation for softball. As it is that sport that shows how one sport/ group of athletes is treated differently than others.

[Iluvblue]

Hopefully common sense prevails... but we know that wont be the case. Im just for everyone being on equal footing. SD section is ridiculous, and yes, that needs saving.


I have no problem shutting down during the season.... but not if soccer doesnt have to.

[Rotatorcuff]

I don't think its a bad thing to shut down during the HS season, if it was uniform across the state. But its not and it puts San Diego travel teams at a big disadvantage when travel ball resumes after high school with very little time to prepare for National Qualifiers. I had roughly three weeks to prepare my team for State last year.

I brought this up because of the Adidas Futures showcase coming up. OC teams will get to practice before the tourney. SD teams cannot. My DD made an OC Adidas Futures team but b/c of this silly rule, will not get to practice with the team until the end of May.

Sounds like everyone agrees it is a silly rule. And I do believe it would not stand up in court, but do you risk your daughter's HS softball season to find out?

[4th & Forever]

I don't think its a bad thing to shut down during the HS season, if it was uniform across the state. But its not and it puts San Diego travel teams at a big disadvantage when travel ball resumes after high school with very little time to prepare for National Qualifiers. I had roughly three weeks to prepare my team for State last year.

I brought this up because of the Adidas Futures showcase coming up. OC teams will get to practice before the tourney. SD teams cannot. My DD made an OC Adidas Futures team but b/c of this silly rule, will not get to practice with the team until the end of May.

Sounds like everyone agrees it is a silly rule. And I do believe it would not stand up in court, but do you risk your daughter's HS softball season to find out?

I really wouldn't worry about the Futures event too much... There are MULTIPLE events that get better exposure results than that particular one... Must say though it had one of the coolest trophies I ever got..

There should be a uniform set of rules. I agree that Teams should be allowed to practice together but that is it. I would also like to see a TOTAL TB dark period for at least 1 month after Nationals... Give these Athletes time to recover... JMO

[MADman]

Any Suggestions?

What if the high school program is not very good (that's being polite) and it is literally a waste of time to play, and on top of that it is Daddy Ball, are there 16U or 18U TB teams made up of girls that have decided not to play HS? If so, how do I find them.

[ontheblack]

I don't think its a bad thing to shut down during the HS season, if it was uniform across the state. But its not and it puts San Diego travel teams at a big disadvantage when travel ball resumes after high school with very little time to prepare for National Qualifiers. I had roughly three weeks to prepare my team for State last year.

I brought this up because of the Adidas Futures showcase coming up. OC teams will get to practice before the tourney. SD teams cannot. My DD made an OC Adidas Futures team but b/c of this silly rule, will not get to practice with the team until the end of May.

Sounds like everyone agrees it is a silly rule. And I do believe it would not stand up in court, but do you risk your daughter's HS softball season to find out?

I do not think its a silly rule. I am glad the ADs have kept the rule in place this year in spite of heavy pressure from a few coaches.

As for disadvantaged, I hardly think so. TNL won ASA 16s, Fox's 16u Renegades finished 3rd at Premier. What disadvantage? The other SD teams just were not very good. Nothing unusual about that when many of the best players go north to play. Cant blame that on CIF.

We are seeing more overuse injuries because the kids play to much and dont get a chance to heal. They need a break.