Coaches Need to Teach More than X's and O's

[Dave Devine]

Hello,

I was sent this string by email and all the venom and hate that was in it. First off let me clear up Kiest Park and the perception. Is it Southlake (no) but we still have young girls that want to play fastpitch in South Dallas and that surrounding area, in order to support them we (ASA) bring tournaments to that area. Just because they don't fit your idea of income status they still want to be included. Since I become JO Commissioner it has been a high priority to bring softball to all of Dallas just not the suburbs. ASA held 4 events including a 72 team Gold qualifier there in 2010, we had no trouble at all when we were there.

Kiest Park has huge warm up areas, nice restrooms at the complex (working on more facilities on the outside fields), on staff field crew, and a great concession stand. We have been working real hard getting inner city girls playing our sport and it is real hard listening to your rude comments on the area they are from. Everyone should be happy to support growth in Softball no matter what area it comes from.

Second, we will be having a tournament held st Kiest March 31-April 1. This will be a ASA "A" classification tournament and will be posted on TournamentASA.com shortly. We will be only taking 14- 14UA and 14- 12UA, total of 28 teams. It is a "invitational" and the teams will be the best we can come up with in Texas and Oklahoma. This event has been planed for over a year and we are looking forward to putting it on.

If you have a problem with the area don't sign up..But we will be having a great tournament with the best teams we can find. The Format 5gg 4 Pools seeding into a single elimination bracket on Sunday and of course ASA rules and ASA Registered Umpires.

FYI Dallas (Kiest Park) came in second place to Chattanooga TN, for hosting the 2013 12UA ASA Nationals. We will be working hard to bring it to Dallas County in 2014 in one of our cities.

[fastpitchfever16]

Dave that sounds great I love the idea of seeding the pools but any chance to make it a double elimination instead of single. I think most teams would prefer the double elimination format. But that is just my opinion.

FYI thanks for all you do for fastpitch. I know lots of people who have played at Kiest and have had no problems and were very impressed with the fields and the upkeep during the tournament.

[pbj2000]

my point is you are crapping on all the NTX teams that play VTD and boast about ASA in Houston in Cali...I can guarantee you Houston and Cali teams don't care if it's ASA, USFA, USSSA or ABC...they just want to play ball. Just like NTX teams just want to play ball...where we go wrong is once we beat everybody locally...we just play up instead of playing our division and playing travel. That is my point...beating a bunch of 14U teams and then playing 16U and competing is not the same as beating 14U and then traveling to play tougher 14U teams.

thanks for the reference to the all mighty, but I am far from it...it's a board where everyone is entitled to opinions

[justawatcher]

my point is you are crapping on all the NTX teams that play VTD and boast about ASA in Houston in Cali...I can guarantee you Houston and Cali teams don't care if it's ASA, USFA, USSSA or ABC...they just want to play ball. Just like NTX teams just want to play ball...where we go wrong is once we beat everybody locally...we just play up instead of playing our division and playing travel. That is my point...beating a bunch of 14U teams and then playing 16U and competing is not the same as beating 14U and then traveling to play tougher 14U teams.

thanks for the reference to the all mighty, but I am far from it...it's a board where everyone is entitled to opinions

Ok that makes sense then, and I agree. There are so many teams "playing up" who really can't even compete at their own age group on a national level. We've become a culture of going straight from 12U to Gold and it has ruined everything in between. As a coach though, what do you do? Take a stand and play in the right age group and you get no competition. I think that's where friendlies/tournaments like the one we're talking about in this thread can do a lot of good. Two problems: It's already obvious by some posts on this thread that some are already thinking about winning instead of getting better. PBJ is right that Cali is different. All they do is beat each other up in venues such as this one. But it's not a one time thing to give bragging rights to one team.

The other is getting the teams to actually come play. Dave can attest that this has been tried in the past. Getting 14 of the best to come together at the same time is easier said than done. If he can truly get this done $200 to ASA is nothing. I would pay that out of pocket on a monthly basis with a check made out to cash just to get my GDDs coach to play in something like this all spring. Again, if it were truly 14 of the best.

[Dave Devine]

Dave that sounds great I love the idea of seeding the pools but any chance to make it a double elimination instead of single. I think most teams would prefer the double elimination format. But that is just my opinion.

FYI thanks for all you do for fastpitch. I know lots of people who have played at Kiest and have had no problems and were very impressed with the fields and the upkeep during the tournament.

I understand your point, but this is what we see. As far as scheduling goes and getting the most game guarantees which is 5, having pools seeding into the brackets works best for this situation. If we have teams that want to travel in and play they prefer more games, but all these games count. Also for teams on a Single Elimination bracket it is win or go home, is there a better way to get ready for Championship play??

By saying all this if coaches or managers have any suggestions we can adjust, if the majority wants to do a different format. We are here for them and because of them.

[Dave Devine]

my point is you are crapping on all the NTX teams that play VTD and boast about ASA in Houston in Cali...I can guarantee you Houston and Cali teams don't care if it's ASA, USFA, USSSA or ABC...they just want to play ball. Just like NTX teams just want to play ball...where we go wrong is once we beat everybody locally...we just play up instead of playing our division and playing travel. That is my point...beating a bunch of 14U teams and then playing 16U and competing is not the same as beating 14U and then traveling to play tougher 14U teams.

thanks for the reference to the all mighty, but I am far from it...it's a board where everyone is entitled to opinions

Ok that makes sense then, and I agree. There are so many teams "playing up" who really can't even compete at their own age group on a national level. We've become a culture of going straight from 12U to Gold and it has ruined everything in between. As a coach though, what do you do? Take a stand and play in the right age group and you get no competition. I think that's where friendlies/tournaments like the one we're talking about in this thread can do a lot of good. Two problems: It's already obvious by some posts on this thread that some are already thinking about winning instead of getting better. PBJ is right that Cali is different. All they do is beat each other up in venues such as this one. But it's not a one time thing to give bragging rights to one team.

The other is getting the teams to actually come play. Dave can attest that this has been tried in the past. Getting 14 of the best to come together at the same time is easier said than done. If he can truly get this done $200 to ASA is nothing. I would pay that out of pocket on a monthly basis with a check made out to cash just to get my GDDs coach to play in something like this all spring. Again, if it were truly 14 of the best.

I really don't mind giving my opinion but remember that is what it is.

Yes, it is hurting softball in North Texas! Not only players playing up in North Texas but also B teams having to play A teams week after week. Players that are not ready for the transition is getting defeated and is washing out of the sport and we are losing them to other sports because of that. Can some 8th graders play up and succeed at at 16U, 18U, or Gold, the answer is yes. With good coaching they actually are better off playing at a higher level. By saying that we had a very good team in Dallas last year that went to 14UA Nationals, that placed very high had trouble keeping their team together because they were a older 14U team that was playing in their age division. The peer pressure for these players and parents for playing up and other coaches recruiting became to much so they broke up after a nice run. The Kruzer team out of Fort Worth has won at a very high level and for the most part as remained intact and has played in their age division for the most part. I really hope they don't mind me using their name on here but the deserve a lot of credit holding it together all these years with other coaches making all sorts of runs at their players or joining their organization.

Is there a easy answer to fix this problem, No. It takes our coaches in North Texas all being on the same page and doing what is best for softball, not just their team or organization. If we can accomplish this, we will make North Texas Strong in Softball overall.

[MavFan]

Dave Devine says- Is there a easy answer to fix this problem, No. It takes our coaches in North Texas all being on the same page and doing what is best for softball, not just their team or organization. If we can accomplish this, we will make North Texas Strong in Softball overall.



In my opinion, the recruiting process is what is driving the playing up issue at the 16-18U levels. To me it is a top down process. The 14 and 15 year olds verballing needs to go away and the only ones that can get that to stop is the college coaches, because a player can't say yes and verbal if there is no offer. Perhaps, if the enough coaches get burned by enough players that dont reach the potential, or enough players get burned by coaches not honoring the commitment it will change.

I am not in north Texas, but at the 10 - 14u level you are dealing with parent coaches for the most part. Getting the buy-in to do was is best for softball is not going to be easy because they are short term and not necessarily worried about the game as a whole, they seem to be focused on only their teams and DDs.

The playing up issue is getting out of control, and in reality it isn't even playing up anymore especially at 12U. I was at a 14 U tournament in Houston a couple of weeks ago and there were 14 teams and 11 or 12 of them were 12U teams, and 3 or 4 were first year 12u teams.

[americanfreedom]

What Dave said! Slow down, play in your age group, play at your level of play, etc.

Parents, players, travel coaches, and college coaches are all to blame for the ridiculous situation that we have created in North Texas. Most of us who have been in this for awhile remember when most of the best teams and players in North Texas (and the rest of Texas) regularly played "B" ball until they were at least 6th graders. In fact, there were very few "A" tournaments in DFW that could even make at 10u and 12u.

I remember the first time that I told my AF parents that our second-year 12u team that had qualified for 2006 ASA 12u "A" Nationals was going to play up in a 14u tournament to get ready for nationals, and the moms looked at me like I was crazy. We were a mix of 6th and 7th graders, and we had 4 future Div. I and 1 Div. II signees as starters, including one of the best left-handed pitchers in the country. Today, that team would have been regularly playing 14u and probably 16u.

If you are a parent or player reading this thread, please slow down, don't be pressured to "play up" just because your friends are. Learn to be a leader and winner in your designated age group. For the vast, vast majority of players, you have all the time in the world to get recruited. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, but if a player isn't one of North Texas' top 4 or 5 players in her position in her age group, she needs to be playing in her age group on a team competing and winning in her age group locally, regionally, and nationally.

[justawatcher]

One good thing is that it has actually become so absurd that if you were to dismiss the age group of the tournament, most teams are actually playing in their own age group. Several 14U tournaments this past year were filled almost exclusively with 12U teams, 16 with 14 and so on. It's comical actually up until the time during the high school season when the 14s play 14s that are filled with 10s/12s.

Here are results of bracket play from some of the best 14U teams playing 16U (I'm not intentionally leaving anyone out, I just picked these at random.):

Firecrackers: 16U Tournaments-1, Games vs. 16U Teams-2, Wins vs. 16U Teams-0
Pride Sattler: 16U Tournaments-3, Games vs. 16U Teams-5, Wins vs. 16U Teams-4
Fireballs: 16U Tournaments-1, Games vs. 16U Teams-3, Wins vs. 16U Teams-2
Adkins Allen: 16U Tournaments-3, Games vs. 16U Teams-5, Wins vs. 16U Teams-3
BB Rhine: 16U Tournaments-1, Games vs. 16U Teams-3, Wins vs. 16U Teams-1
Bombers: 16U Tournaments-1, Games vs. 16U Teams-1, Wins vs. 16U Teams-0

A total of 54 games were played by these teams in 16U tournaments but only 29 were against 16U teams.
12 of those 29 games were against the same 3 teams.

[3monkeys]

Invitation-only friendlies are the best option to ensure good competition with age-appropriate players. But, one of the main reasons you do not see many is that most tournaments are hosted by teams or organizations using the tournament as a fundraiser.

If a team has an option to host a friendly versus a league or "open" tournament, they will want to host the most profitable one and that is the league/open option as they can draw more teams and honestly, league parents spend more money in concessions.