How do you know who is the best without a head to head?

[dailyjoy]

This past week while waiting for different events, such as practice, to either start or finish I read the entire “Who are the big tough teams at 10u level A?? Are there any?” thread. It was quite entertaining and enlightening.

Though I mostly read for the laughs the thread generated, it did raise a few more serious questions which I have been mulling around in my mind.

Much of the thread focused around a few teams which were apparently the “best” 10u teams last year. I am curious how it is determined these are the best teams. It seemed to me they mostly play each other and since they were “A” teams it doesn’t appear they played a large percentage of the 10u teams in Indiana.

The thing I think which surprised me the most was how much agreement was seen on the board as to the teams from NWI sox, Chesterton, Gators, and a few others being the best of the best. How can it be determined these teams are the best when they do not play teams such as the Indiana Thunder?

Are the same programs, because they are “A” teams considered the top teams in 12u for this upcoming year?

Another observation I am curious about is the seemingly critical line of thought that a team choosing to play “B” instead of “A”, even if it is so players can experience Nationals without the financial cost adding more stress to the parents, are choosing the easy path. If it is true, which it seems to be, “B” has more teams doesn’t it make sense to play where you have more competition as in a much larger variety of teams to compete against?

Over and over it was mentioned how the “big tough teams” played back and forth, winning and losing, amongst themselves all season. To me this seems to defeat the purpose of playing in so many tourneys. Isn’t the point of playing travel ball to be able to play a wide variety of teams and each week be able to face a team you may not have played yet in the season? Isn’t that a part of becoming a good team?

As we begin a new season and these big touch teams move up to 12u will they still be considered the best of the best if they limit their play to ASA “A” tourneys and never play NSA “A” and “B” teams? If they do how can we really know they are the biggest and toughest teams?

Finally with the large number of teams playing “B” and NSA ball in Indiana couldn’t the argument be made teams which chose to play ASA “A” are actually the ones taking the easy way out? Think about it….it is much easier to qualify for an ASA national tourney when you have to fight four teams to be the top dog then it is to qualify against 30 teams playing in NSA “B”state.

Just curious what others thought…….

Joy
Disclaimer……I am new to travel ball and do not claim to understand how the ASA, NSA, “A” teams and “B” all function…..any insight on how this all works would be appreciated.

[Bake]

dailyjoy, you can't be serious!!!!

[slapperdad]

I'm going to ruffle some feathers here, but what the heck, that's never stopped me before. Let me preface this by saying, this is my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you're paying for it.

At 10's and 12's, as long as you're playing in a competitive situation, who cares where/who you're playing. You're going to run across some teams who you're clearly better than, you're going to run across some teams who are clearly superior to you. It's just the nature of the beast. There are those on this board who support the "best of the best" mentality. And if you want to beat that drum when you're kid's 10-12 years old, knock yourself out. But I don't think it's the only way for your kid to develop into a decent ball player and move to the next level.

My experience in the past has been NSA will segregate A's and B's in their tournaments. Granted I haven't been to an NSA event in over two years. If you play NSA every weekend, you will most likely see a lot of the same faces over and over. If you play any sanctioning body repeatedly you will find you see the same faces over and over. I think at the younger levels, you need to move around a little bit. Go play NSA, USFA, AFA, if there's any ASA available, give it a go. Back in the day, USSSA, now USFA, and AFA don't tend to segregate A teams. You all get thrown into the same pot.

I'm sure in ASA and NSA there are some type of rules regarding how your team registers or something. That could possibly prohibit A teams from playing B.

The long and the short of it in my opinion is don't get caught up in who's the best at this stage. By the time you get to 14U and certainly in 16's, everyone knows who the studs are. When you're 10 and 12, go let your DD have some fun, hone her skills, and hopefully she'll come back next year.

[dailyjoy]

dailyjoy, you can't be serious!!!!

I guess my answer would depend on what you mean by serious.......I would seriously like to hear people's thoughts about what I wrote....I would be curious at to your thoughts Bake.

[dailyjoy]

"At 10's and 12's, as long as you're playing in a competitive situation, who cares where/who you're playing. You're going to run across some teams who you're clearly better than, you're going to run across some teams who are clearly superior to you. It's just the nature of the beast. There are those on this board who support the "best of the best" mentality. And if you want to beat that drum when you're kid's 10-12 years old, knock yourself out. But I don't think it's the only way for your kid to develop into a decent ball player and move to the next level."

Slapper I tend to agree. I think, especially at a younger age, learning to face different teams is beneficial. Playing the same team over and over teaches you how to compete against and beat a particular team, mostly because you learn their strengths and weakness, and may keep you from learning how to quickly adjust your game to different players/teams.

"My experience in the past has been NSA will segregate A's and B's in their tournaments. Granted I haven't been to an NSA event in over two years. If you play NSA every weekend, you will most likely see a lot of the same faces over and over. If you play any sanctioning body repeatedly you will find you see the same faces over and over. I think at the younger levels, you need to move around a little bit. Go play NSA, USFA, AFA, if there's any ASA available, give it a go. Back in the day, USSSA, now USFA, and AFA don't tend to segregate A teams. You all get thrown into the same pot."

I only have the past years experience to draw upon but all of the tourney’s we played in were either open or a NSA tourney with both A and B teams playing together

I found the only time we played the same faces was when we went to the same facility. For example both times we played at Wabash the same teams were there. When we went to Warsaw a few of the same teams where there but the majority were new teams. The same is true when we played in Michigan City. A tourney in Northern Indiana had only one team we had faced before and the State Tourney had some repeat teams but we also saw several teams we had never seen.

I liked facing different teams each weekend. Granted we only did seven tourneys but not one of our tourneys had the same champion. Actually I don’t think there was even a championship game with the same two teams playing each other.

Our double headers, which were more local teams, we rarely saw at tournaments either.

It seems to me going to different tournaments,at different locations and then playing different teams would expand the player’s experience. I like variety.

In my opinion, inexperienced opinion at that, it makes more sense to play where everyone else is playing in order to have a wider option of tourneys and teams to compete against. It is also my opinion an argument could be made a team who faces and defeats a wider selection of teams may be better than a team which plays the same teams each weekend. But alas as I said these are just some thoughts I have been rolling around in my mind to entertain myself during some of the slower parts of my day.

[10GatorCoach]

Dailyjoy,

Agree 100% on variety of teams. If you look at the teams who were people talked about being the "top" teams, all traveled around the state and even out of state. We (Gators 2001) saw Crown Point and NWI Sox a few times in the Indy area. Xtreme traveled to IL and OH and also played NSA and USFA for a different mix, and we travelled to OH and played a mix of NSA, ASA, USFA, and AFA to see a different mix. I think seeing different teams and different levels of teams can only help in the long run. We and Xtreme also played in a few 12U tournaments as well. We have plans this year to travel to OH, IL, and MI or TN. That is also the beauty of going to NSA A Nationals or ASA. You may see 1 or 2 IN teams, but mostly out of state teams there!

Good luck to you in 12U this year as we stay in 10U.

[artomatic]

I'm going to venture into your fine state to give an opinion...
I think slapperdad's take is about right for 10's.
In fact, in 10's, about the only difference between A and B level teams are the snacks they get after the games...
You start seeing more of a separation between A and B teams in 12's and up.
Good luck with your season.

[Fuddrules]

I don't know, I'd say at 10u it's not difficult to identify the better teams. If you've seen enough 10U ball, it takes about 15 minutes to put a team in the - Very good, good, no-so good, should stick to rec - categories.

You won't be able to identify "THE" best, but you can identify the better teams quite easily.