Metro/Association Tournaments

[bring'nheat]

Maybe somebody can explain the various regional metros. I was under the impression that a team had to play in the metro (area) from which a majority of their players are from. As an example.. team A has 90% of team from Greater San Joaquin and 10% from Sac, they would be required to play in Greater San Joaquin (or vice versa). Is this correct or misinformation?
Also, from what parents have been saying around the fields, money is a big issue when it comes to ASA / USA Nationals. Some teams just have no desire to make the journey to Nationals. Many teams who have Nationals as their "goal", will tell you upfront at tryouts and will lay out the financials of said trip. That way you aren't going into it blindly and then realizing you're gonna have to come up with some serious cash come end of July / begin of August.

Good luck to ALL the teams gearing up for that trek to Nationals.

[PDad]

Maybe somebody can explain the various regional metros. I was under the impression that a team had to play in the metro (area) from which a majority of their players are from. As an example.. team A has 90% of team from Greater San Joaquin and 10% from Sac, they would be required to play in Greater San Joaquin (or vice versa). Is this correct or misinformation?

Basically correct, but there is an exception. Here is the applicable code:

Team Registration. A team must register with the local association in which the greatest number of its’ players reside, and this number must be retained for the remainder of the season.

EXCEPTION: Teams in an adjoining county to a state or metro association may register with either the state or the metro association by mutual consent of the State/Metro Commissioner’s involved.

[Heyall]

(Apologies to the OP - the string seems to have taken a turn!)

A lot of speculation on why teams like Sting - P are going to Premier instead of ASA. Personally, I think it's pretty simple...

Aside from the obvious level of competition and tradition, the 16u ASA Nationals used to be the most heavily recruited tournament in the country every year. This may not be a "fact" but it is certainly a general agreement. At 18G, so many of the players are already verbaled or signed that the 16u teams offered a much larger group to recruit from. Whether a 16u team goes to a national-level tournament or a showcase, it is for one primary reason: RECRUITING. If recruiters are not there, why go? Ego doesn't work in this economy so recruiting So now that so many top-tier 16u teams are going to Premier, the recruiters are likely to follow meaning 16u ASA Nationals will likely see a reduction in the number of colleges or at least the level of colleges represented in Tennessee. As this occurs, more teams will be going to Premier and as more teams go to Premier, more colleges will follow.

Historically, 16u is a heavy recruiting year and whether it's Westerns, Easterns, the Artesia fields of a Surf City showcase or wherever, it just doesn't make sense to put out money to travel to tournaments and showcases that do not offer the exposure opportunities at this level.

[rbi]

Heyall, I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I will say that people will find that 14's is a different animal than 16's and same goes for 18G, as far as recruiting and definitely level of play. I know in my DD's case going from 16's to 18G, was a HUGE adjustment, and the longer you wait the tougher the transition will be, that I will guarantee. To most of these TB coachs its a huge huge ego thing, to not only win big tournaments but to get a kid committed to some big school and put another notch on their belt, and thats only fair. Bottom line is as parents you have to do whats best for your kid. Most, but not all, of these coachs have the kids best interest and thats all that matters to me really, all the other stuff they can have.


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[Heyall]

Maybe somebody can explain the various regional metros. I was under the impression that a team had to play in the metro (area) from which a majority of their players are from. As an example.. team A has 90% of team from Greater San Joaquin and 10% from Sac, they would be required to play in Greater San Joaquin (or vice versa). Is this correct or misinformation?

Basically correct, but there is an exception. Here is the applicable code:

Team Registration. A team must register with the local association in which the greatest number of its’ players reside, and this number must be retained for the remainder of the season.

EXCEPTION: Teams in an adjoining county to a state or metro association may register with either the state or the metro association by mutual consent of the State/Metro Commissioner’s involved.

This is an absolutely ridiculous rule exception unless some extreme circumstance occurs.
Last year in 14u, a well-known team based in Sac but with the majority of their team having zip codes in the Stockton Metro were going to come up against another well-known 14u team that would have given them a serious run for Nationals. Rather than risk losing the berth, they "forgot" to get their fee mailed in at the right time, then the director of their org contacted his buddies at the local ASA and arranged for them to play in the Sac Metro where they went undefeated and went on to Nationals.

[Intel]

16 Nationals are a big recruiting/exposure tournament for players. I agree you need to do what is best for your players not your coach's ego.

Premier will have 64 top 16u teams that will be mostly SoCal or western based. If my players wanted to play in California or stay west of the Rockies I would try to play in this tournament, but qualification is tight so I would way my chances of qualifying carefully.

ASA Nationals will be in Tennessee. Will have probably 140+ teams form mostly Midwest, South and Eastern programs. Since 2/3 of D1 programs are east of the Mississippi and if I have players that are willing to play east of the rockies, I would go ASA.

What the college coaches are telling me. Travel budgets have been reduced so they need to get the best value for their travel. ASA 16U Nationals have to many teams and good players not to attend, plus it's location makes it easier and cheaper to travel. Premier will generally have better teams but players will mostly be west coast players and a higher percentage will already be committed. Available recruiting pool is smaller and fewer players from the college normal recruiting areas (ie not all colleges heavily recruit CA players). Premier offers an opprotunity to recruit different ages (18, 16 and 14) in one general location. Premier size and locations combined with LA traffic makes it difficult to see a lot of games if you want to recruit different ages.

Bottomline, most colleges will recruit ASA 16u national, but some will also send a coach to premier. More west coast colleges will be represented at premier.

As a NorCal program with smaller metros, this really comes down to knowing your team and knowing the numbers. At the Force, we chose ASA (even turning down an automatic berth last year to premier) because we have good relations with east coast colleges, we know we have a good chance of getting a berth at our metro, have always done well with recruiting at ASA nationals including last year, total number of teams at Nationals and recruiters and we see a lot of the SoCal colleges at Champions Cup and Surf City tournaments. Boulder and Nationals are our biggest exposure to eastern colleges.

Just our thoughts

[dittoz]

Interesting POV Intel;

I have heard from at least one team that a college scout told them just the opposite and that they needed to take their team to Premier because ASA 16u was going to be down in terms of the blue-chip schools.

Perhaps the difference in who is where is what is driving the opinions. If you're a UoA, UCLA, etc and you're recruiting the top-tier players you will be at Premier. If you're one of the other 95%, you're more likely to have success at ASA Nat's.

Dunno...

[Intel]

dittoz, I totally agree with your statement. The top tier teams that recruit heavily in SoCal will be at premier. It's that other 95% of colleges that is our target market. Yes we have 2 players going PAC10 this year (2011) and we have one (2012) close, but we understand our players and their ability and desires.

This is where I think some teams fail to adjust their tournament schedule to match their players. I also think it is risky to play in a premier qualifier over your own metro. That math does not add up.

[ssarge]

The list of colleges planning to attend Premier is long and impressive. You can see it on the PGF site.

http://premiergirlsfastpitch.com/recruiter_data_01.php

Looks like a little over 100 so far.

I kind of doubt there will be more colleges - certainly not more D-I colleges - at ASA 16A nationals than at Premier. I guess we'll see.

But even if there ARE, it is about YOUR kids getting seen. Much more likely that happens when there are 60 teams at Premier than 160 teams at ASA. If you include 18U, 16U, AND 14U at Premier, it isn't much over 160 teams. And that means something in terms of the level of play, and it isn't lost on the college coaches. MOst of whom WILL spend the majrity of their time at 16s regardless of venue.

I don't understand the reference to cost. Airline travel is airline travel, and has everything to do with demand for getting to the end destination, and little to do with mileage. I'll bet for many parts of the country, a flight to LA is cheaper than one to smaller cities in Texas or the Carolinas. Might be direct, too, meaning it probably takes less time. Once there, hotels and food are hotels and food. Like anyone else, college coaches - everything else being equal - would probably prefer the most attractive destination so they can enjoy themselves as well.

This is where I think some teams fail to adjust their tournament schedule to match their players. I also think it is risky to play in a premier qualifier over your own metro. That math does not add up.

I think that is a fair and reasonable point. There are a lot of Mid-Majors and D-IIs planning to attend Premier, though. It isn't just the BCS type conferences, though they certainly will be there, too.

But making a realistic assessment of the players and where they best "slot," then planning accordingly is good advice for any team / coach.

Best regards,

Scott

[ssarge]

So the real shame is that some really good teams in the GSJASA won't have a chance to go to Nationals because of only one berth.

Far be it for me to serve as an apologist for ASA policies. But that is pretty much the reason the NITs and HOF exist.

I don't know how anyone could ever make a subjective judgement on how many berths to award each association based on perceived strength of teams any given year. I think that would be a nightmare. It has alwasy been based on number of participating teams in the association. That seems fair in the big picture, though may well result in occasional inequities in certain associations.

Best regards,

Scott