Premier is it really worth it at 14U?

[AlwaysImprove]

The reality is that the number of teams that qualify for Premier from So Cal will be small. Earn a berth locally or travel to other regions to qualify. Most of the top So Cal teams have already stated their intentions to play at Premier. By limiting the number of teams, Premier will attact the best teams and produce what most will agree is the true national champion. Being that So Cal teams do not have to travel far make Premier worth it in my opinion. If a So Cal team qualified for both Premier and ASA nats, I would bet most teams will pick Premier.

And that's fine. But let's not fall into the trap we did with ASA and put up with a shoddy product run by dictators.

I'm not asking for perfection from Premier, but I am asking them to run things a hell of a lot better than they do Surf City. I think that's more than a fair request.

What have they done at Premier that causes you to condemn them already? Last years tourney was well run and organized. Games were not dragged out over more days than necessary. Location was good. Level of competition was good. I expect this year to be even better since we have regional qualifiers and also the 14u division.
Is it because you just had a terrible experience at a Surf City event and now you want everyone to boycott Premier?

Where did I say boycott Premier? I said lets ask that Premier be better run than Surf City and if it's not then let's look into alternatives. Preferably an alternative that has someone running it who listens and responds to its clientele.

Most of the big teams are happy with Surf City. They get the fields, the college coaches and players they want. Lessor teams have to fight for their chance to get on the better fields, and to play better teams. That is how it will be, no matter where it is held.

The competition versus showcasing is a problem with the sport, not necessarily surf city.

I suspect that surf city is a more a result of how major teams want things done than anything else. Which is why Premier will likely be 'the' nationals.

[fastpitchdad05]

The reality is that the number of teams that qualify for Premier from So Cal will be small. Earn a berth locally or travel to other regions to qualify. Most of the top So Cal teams have already stated their intentions to play at Premier. By limiting the number of teams, Premier will attact the best teams and produce what most will agree is the true national champion. Being that So Cal teams do not have to travel far make Premier worth it in my opinion. If a So Cal team qualified for both Premier and ASA nats, I would bet most teams will pick Premier.

And that's fine. But let's not fall into the trap we did with ASA and put up with a shoddy product run by dictators.

I'm not asking for perfection from Premier, but I am asking them to run things a hell of a lot better than they do Surf City. I think that's more than a fair request.

What have they done at Premier that causes you to condemn them already? Last years tourney was well run and organized. Games were not dragged out over more days than necessary. Location was good. Level of competition was good. I expect this year to be even better since we have regional qualifiers and also the 14u division.
Is it because you just had a terrible experience at a Surf City event and now you want everyone to boycott Premier?

Where did I say boycott Premier? I said lets ask that Premier be better run than Surf City and if it's not then let's look into alternatives. Preferably an alternative that has someone running it who listens and responds to its clientele.

Most of the big teams are happy with Surf City. They get the fields, the college coaches and players they want. Lessor teams have to fight for their chance to get on the better fields, and to play better teams. That is how it will be, no matter where it is held.

The competition versus showcasing is a problem with the sport, not necessarily surf city.

I suspect that surf city is a more a result of how major teams want things done than anything else. Which is why Premier will likely be 'the' nationals.

So if I understand you correctly you're saying that Surf City tournaments and Premier are both designed for the elite teams and not only the people running them, but also these select elite teams don't care about anyone else but themselves? And further, this is why some teams, like Mizuno Pride 98 for instance, were ignored when they repeatedly tried to contact Hay and Haning about the March Classic?

Does that sum up your opinion correctly?

[AlwaysImprove]

The reality is that the number of teams that qualify for Premier from So Cal will be small. Earn a berth locally or travel to other regions to qualify. Most of the top So Cal teams have already stated their intentions to play at Premier. By limiting the number of teams, Premier will attact the best teams and produce what most will agree is the true national champion. Being that So Cal teams do not have to travel far make Premier worth it in my opinion. If a So Cal team qualified for both Premier and ASA nats, I would bet most teams will pick Premier.

And that's fine. But let's not fall into the trap we did with ASA and put up with a shoddy product run by dictators.

I'm not asking for perfection from Premier, but I am asking them to run things a hell of a lot better than they do Surf City. I think that's more than a fair request.

What have they done at Premier that causes you to condemn them already? Last years tourney was well run and organized. Games were not dragged out over more days than necessary. Location was good. Level of competition was good. I expect this year to be even better since we have regional qualifiers and also the 14u division.
Is it because you just had a terrible experience at a Surf City event and now you want everyone to boycott Premier?

Where did I say boycott Premier? I said lets ask that Premier be better run than Surf City and if it's not then let's look into alternatives. Preferably an alternative that has someone running it who listens and responds to its clientele.

Most of the big teams are happy with Surf City. They get the fields, the college coaches and players they want. Lessor teams have to fight for their chance to get on the better fields, and to play better teams. That is how it will be, no matter where it is held.

The competition versus showcasing is a problem with the sport, not necessarily surf city.

I suspect that surf city is a more a result of how major teams want things done than anything else. Which is why Premier will likely be 'the' nationals.

So if I understand you correctly you're saying that Surf City tournaments and Premier are both designed for the elite teams and not only the people running them, but also these select elite teams don't care about anyone else but themselves? And further, this is why some teams, like Mizuno Pride 98 for instance, were ignored when they repeatedly tried to contact Hay and Haning about the March Classic?

Does that sum up your opinion correctly?

Not sure about Mizuno Pride 98, or any other direct situation. I do not know Gary or Dan that well.

It just seems obvious to me. Let's look at recruiting/Surf City first. You are top 30 in the nation program. Do you choose the tournament organizer that helps you play other top 30 programs, or the tournament organizer that always makes you play teams without many recruits, so those teams get a chance? Remember you have a lot of kids to get recruited every year.

Now on the Nationals side of things. Again you are a top 30 program. ASA is going to throw you into a tournament with 128 teams including about 45 teams that did not really qualify (hand down berths, host berths, fill in berths). Premier is going to put you into a select field of 64 of the best teams in the nation.

For managers of upper echelon teams the choice is easy. It has little to do with Gary or Dan or Surf City. It has everything to do with the top 30 teams in nation.

To me this has everything to do with the fact that ASA allows no coaches in their decision making process.

I have been the highest end of teams, and more middle of the road teams. I have watched and worked with managers of both. I understand the struggle of running one of the more middle of the road teams. It can be tough/frustrating at times. The more you realize how and why the upper teams behave the way they do, the better you can go about setting up your year.

BTW, I agree, allowing dictators to offer shoddy product would be a bad thing. So far I have not seen it in Premier. They offer the product that the top 30 teams really want.

[ontheblack]

So far, the GA Impact team that finished 2nd at ASA (with its only 2 losses the entire season against OCBB Ray) isnt listed in a single Premier Qualifier. Same with Texas Ice and Atl Vipers, both with top 15 finishes. Now I know these are 97s, but there are several top 30 teams (96s) that appear to be skipping Premier.

You cant seriously make the argument that whoever wins Premier at 14s is National Champ, particularly if these and others like PS96 are at ASA.

[fastpitchdad05]

So far, the GA Impact team that finished 2nd at ASA (with its only 2 losses the entire season against OCBB Ray) isnt listed in a single Premier Qualifier. Same with Texas Ice and Atl Vipers, both with top 15 finishes. Now I know these are 97s, but there are several top 30 teams (96s) that appear to be skipping Premier.

You cant seriously make the argument that whoever wins Premier at 14s is National Champ, particularly if these and others like PS96 are at ASA.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see if PGF can somehow pull this together.

If I were them I'd start by listening to their customers...all of them, not just the elite teams.

Otherwise they're gonna end up playing a glorified friendly.

[AlwaysImprove]

So far, the GA Impact team that finished 2nd at ASA (with its only 2 losses the entire season against OCBB Ray) isnt listed in a single Premier Qualifier. Same with Texas Ice and Atl Vipers, both with top 15 finishes. Now I know these are 97s, but there are several top 30 teams (96s) that appear to be skipping Premier.

You cant seriously make the argument that whoever wins Premier at 14s is National Champ, particularly if these and others like PS96 are at ASA.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see if PGF can somehow pull this together.

If I were them I'd start by listening to their customers...all of them, not just the elite teams.

Otherwise they're gonna end up playing a glorified friendly.

You have not really stated your issue with Premier. Just that you do not like something that happens at Surf City.

[AlwaysImprove]

So far, the GA Impact team that finished 2nd at ASA (with its only 2 losses the entire season against OCBB Ray) isnt listed in a single Premier Qualifier. Same with Texas Ice and Atl Vipers, both with top 15 finishes. Now I know these are 97s, but there are several top 30 teams (96s) that appear to be skipping Premier.

You cant seriously make the argument that whoever wins Premier at 14s is National Champ, particularly if these and others like PS96 are at ASA.

Same strategy ASA took with 18's and 16's.

[Battle]

Now on the Nationals side of things. Again you are a top 30 program. ASA is going to throw you into a tournament with 128 teams including about 45 teams that did not really qualify (hand down berths, host berths, fill in berths). Premier is going to put you into a select field of 64 of the best teams in the nation.

Ummm....Huh?...This may not be just about 14U but...

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23710

[fastpitchdad05]

So far, the GA Impact team that finished 2nd at ASA (with its only 2 losses the entire season against OCBB Ray) isnt listed in a single Premier Qualifier. Same with Texas Ice and Atl Vipers, both with top 15 finishes. Now I know these are 97s, but there are several top 30 teams (96s) that appear to be skipping Premier.

You cant seriously make the argument that whoever wins Premier at 14s is National Champ, particularly if these and others like PS96 are at ASA.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see if PGF can somehow pull this together.

If I were them I'd start by listening to their customers...all of them, not just the elite teams.

Otherwise they're gonna end up playing a glorified friendly.

You have not really stated your issue with Premier. Just that you do not like something that happens at Surf City.

It is led by the same two guys that run Surf City. They are unresponsive. I am concerned that they will be the same way with PGF.

Here let me give you an example: AT&T just bought T-Mobile. It has been my experience that AT&T's customer service is very poor. Therefore I would worry that the post-acquisition customer service for T-Mobile would be poor. And if it is, then it might be time to look for a new service provider.

I sincerely hope this helps to clarify my position on Surf City, PGF and Haning and Hay.

BTW...I find it ironic that your name is AlwaysImprove and yet you are questioning why I would like to see improvement in how Hay and Haning handle their business. And yes...they definitely consider this a business, which I suspect is at the heart of the issue.

[AlwaysImprove]

So far, the GA Impact team that finished 2nd at ASA (with its only 2 losses the entire season against OCBB Ray) isnt listed in a single Premier Qualifier. Same with Texas Ice and Atl Vipers, both with top 15 finishes. Now I know these are 97s, but there are several top 30 teams (96s) that appear to be skipping Premier.

You cant seriously make the argument that whoever wins Premier at 14s is National Champ, particularly if these and others like PS96 are at ASA.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see if PGF can somehow pull this together.

If I were them I'd start by listening to their customers...all of them, not just the elite teams.

Otherwise they're gonna end up playing a glorified friendly.

You have not really stated your issue with Premier. Just that you do not like something that happens at Surf City.

It is led by the same two guys that run Surf City. They are unresponsive. I am concerned that they will be the same way with PGF.

Here let me give you an example: AT&T just bought T-Mobile. It has been my experience that AT&T's customer service is very poor. Therefore I would worry that the post-acquisition customer service for T-Mobile would be poor. And if it is, then it might be time to look for a new service provider.

I sincerely hope this helps to clarify my position on Surf City, PGF and Haning and Hay.

BTW...I find it ironic that your name is AlwaysImprove and yet you are questioning why I would like to see improvement in how Hay and Haning handle their business. And yes...they definitely consider this a business, which I suspect is at the heart of the issue.

Your example is about large corporate mergers. Not sure how it applies. Kinda like saying, the guy who runs North Korea is nutty as a loon, so there you go.

I know many coaches who consider Hay and Haning very responsive.

And, I would think a question that is basically "How exactly would you want Haning and Hay to improve their business?" would be exactly the question to ask, if we really are seeking improvement.

Otherwise someone may get the idea that you are shilling for the other side. Just saying.