A tip coming out of fall ball.....

[watchtonsofsoftball]

I was holding this thought back as I wasn't going to stir the pot. Being that Tenshun had said it was dead around here, I figured I would lob this out there (insert Tenshun under the bus)
I was thinking this a few weeks back how every fall there is teams that go through fall ball with the sole intention of winning and putting their team 'on the map'. This is true of Nor Cal because aside from a few organizations, not many of the 'smaller' orgs make it to long before players jump ship to said 'big' organizations.
So what ends up happening is , these teams play their best 9 and go at it all fall. And next thing you know a parent will make mention of how this team is playing and then they are favorites to win the following summer. But what ends up happening is an implosion by the team because every bench player and 2nd and 3rd pitcher has been rubbed wrong and didnt get their mound time or playing time. So now you return 8 players (or less) and are scrambling to get key positions (that all important solid 2nd and 3rd pitcher or back up catcher). It almost gets into a begging situation, and low and behold they are a complete non factor the next summer. The next fall you see it the same situation just a different team/group of kids.
I only mention this because you see the better teams ( no matter the org.) moving kids around, developing players, and doing their BEST to keep players/PARENTS happy. Once you move to the older divisions a good, legit pitcher is tough to find along with catchers. Had said team kept the pitchers they had happy and let the losses come in essance the credibility would have came in the summer when it counted and the developing showed on the field from the previous fall. Just shows the importance of a good coach who has been around. The novice coach who thinks he knows it all, just never learns . Food for thought!

[Tenshun]

well said watchtons. i've seen the same thing happen and if history is any precedence, then it will be interesting to see how things develop this summer.

btw, i've finished ducking and put my helmet on.... brought an extra one for you too

[Battle]

Do you not think that the players you mentioned leaving, would have left anyway? Would it be better for the #1 pitcher to leave for lack of playing time instead of the #2 or #3? If anybody leaves at that point, it was already in their mind to leave IMO.

[watchtonsofsoftball]

Absolutely not. I dont think so. I think when you dont play in the fall it sends a message that your not in their 'plans'. What is a kid to think or parent for that matter. I dont care who you are you want your kid to be a part of the mix or you go elsewhere. I know various people on quite a bit of teams out there and you will notice even with the best teams, they still work out the bottom tier players in hopes they develop and help in the summer. You never know if a player goes down. The teams that are deep in talent go far. The teams that lose 0-2 players stand a much better chance of continuing success. So if you cant get on the field in the fall, do you really think you will in the summer? At least if your working hard , getting some playing time in the fall, you have a chance to show potential and prove you can help the team in the summer. Your point about #1 starters is a valid one, but ideally you want 3 #1's. Yah I know, not always going to happen. If keeping your #1 is a concern, I think communication with that girl , letting her know what your plans are coupled with leaning on her in the bigger games will keep her around. If your number 1 is that good and is in 16u or below she will move up and there is nothing you can do about it. But I see a ton of teams at 14u and 16u looking for pitchers who HAD pitchers. If you are at 16u, the amount of pitchers available is probably the lowest then any other division. SO it is imperative to keep the ones you have , especially if they are serviceable and have upside. I know one team in particular and one pitcher on a team I am thinking of that has a ton of upside due to size and didnt see the mound. Now they are looking for a pitcher.....hmmmmmm. Doing some poking around I have heard that there isnt much out there, and especially nothing that is going to be an instant impact. SO again, at the 14u and 16u division you have to develop what you have as opposed to thinking you will get more in the summer tryouts. When it doesnt happen your left with begging for people to come out and your season is up in flames.

[Iluvblue]

We do not like to have any players leave from Fall to Summer, and traditionally (the past 3 years) I am not sure we lost a single player from Fall to Summer. That allows us to have players that know what we want, and how we want things done.

This past Fall (since we were a new organization) we simply did not have the players that we needed to have in order to compete at the higher levels, so when Summer tryouts came, by that time more players knew who we were and decided to come out. We had no choice but to take the players that came to tryouts and unfortunately cut some players( Something I HATE to do).

I completely agree with your comments, if a player isnt getting any playing time in the Fall, why would the parents expect that to change in the Summer? They should go somewhere else so they can get PT. We have 13 players on our 14u roster, and NONE of them will sit more than 1 game on a Saturday. That is a flat promise to every player and every parent. Sundays wont be all that different than Saturday, but their are no promises for Sundays, but if we are doing our job, and we have a deep roster, everyone should get plenty of PT on Sunday as well.

If players leave a team in mass after Fall, in most cases the coaches should be looking in the mirror and asking what they are doing to make kids leave. JMO

[Battle]

We have 13 players on our 14u roster, and NONE of them will sit more than 1 game on a Saturday. That is a flat promise to every player and every parent. Sundays wont be all that different than Saturday, but their are no promises for Sundays, but if we are doing our job, and we have a deep roster, everyone should get plenty of PT on Sunday as
well.

Is that a standing promise or just a fall promise?

If players leave a team in mass after Fall, in most cases the coaches should be looking in the mirror and asking what they are doing to make kids leave. JMO

It could be what the coaches are not doing to the parents/players... Winning when they should even though it is fall. As a parent, I understand what fall is about but some might not see it that way. Even if you communicate with the parents and they say they understand, some will not stay if you are losing. Just a thought but I do see what you are saying.

[V Mot 4]

Hey Guys,
What I notice a lot is you have a player who is average during the spring, and when it comes to fall or next spring, they leave to a better well known team... Sometimes I feel like a "development" coach, once they get better, they leave... Sometimes that is frustrating...

I also see players who have tried out for our team who is absolutely lights out, but on their previous team, they got no playing time. I believe it is due to the fact that her other team had nine stud players... I see a lot of players who pay lots of money to play on these well known teams, but with very limited playing. I say if you are good enough to be pick on this team, you are good enough to be on the field...

I want to ask you guys, when does playing on a great team and getting no playing time become justified for the player? I have seen tryouts where the coach would tell the parent the cost, the commitment, the amount of time to be invested...and in the same breath, "playing time is NOT guaranteed"...I have seen players pay up to 1800.00 for the summer to receive very minimal playing time...I do understand that teams with paid coaches are paid to win, so they usually play their top nine...

Sorry for long post...

[Iluvblue]

We have 13 players on our 14u roster, and NONE of them will sit more than 1 game on a Saturday. That is a flat promise to every player and every parent. Sundays wont be all that different than Saturday, but their are no promises for Sundays, but if we are doing our job, and we have a deep roster, everyone should get plenty of PT on Sunday as
well.

Is that a standing promise or just a fall promise?

That is just the way we do things. Players in our program will play.... period. I will not allow any of our coaches to sit a girl more than 1 game on a Saturday. That is just my philosophy, and all of my teams will play by my rules:) The kid that starts the game also finishes the game. We might remove a kid for a runner in one inning, but that kid would go right back in the game the following inning on defense and not lose an AB. KIds that start the game on the bench, finish the game on the bench. I dont believe in 2 innings played. You cant get any rhythm at the plate. The kid needs to get her 2 or 3 at-bats. Not one and then go to the bench. This is what works for us.

If players leave a team in mass after Fall, in most cases the coaches should be looking in the mirror and asking what they are doing to make kids leave. JMO

It could be what the coaches are not doing to the parents/players... Winning when they should even though it is fall. As a parent, I understand what fall is about but some might not see it that way. Even if you communicate with the parents and they say they understand, some will not stay if you are losing. Just a thought but I do see what you are saying.

That goes without saying. If a team doesnt win with any consistency, expect the better plays to take a hike. That is just the way travelball works, and I wouldnt blame them for doing so. If a team has good players and they are not winning much, someone is to blame, and it could be the coach?

[triplecrown]

Winning can also be misleading if you are winning while playing at say, BLD or Rainbow or even some not so well attended Stockton/Sac tournaments. So dont always let winning be a barometer, it should be more about DEVELOPMENT, is she REALLY getting better, is she TRULY being challenged, is she REALLY learning the game, those are the important things ESPECIALLY for the younger ones. Tough to find quality coaching, good luck.

[Iluvblue]

Winning can also be misleading if you are winning while playing at say, BLD or Rainbow or even some not so well attended Stockton/Sac tournaments. So dont always let winning be a barometer, it should be more about DEVELOPMENT,


Winning is the ultimate measuring stick. All things are relative. Winning at Rainbow isnt the same as winning in Stockton, which isnt the same as winning in socal. But teams should find where they should be at, and play there. Then you use winning and losing as a measuring stuck. If you never win, you are just not good. If you win consistently, you are good.... how good? Well go play the best in the nation and you will find out.


Winning and development are not independent of each other... they go together.