Good Coach - Bad Coach

[jofus]

Travel coaches are by definition coaches who let Sally know when she missed her cutoff (and no, it's not always the coach's fault that she did).

[Martin]

Go here for a scholarly discussion about the use of positive and negative reinforcement in motivating athletes. There is something in here for everyone:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sport-motivation.htm

Dr. Crust argues that a successful coach will use a mix of positive and negative reinforcement that is approximately 80-90% positive with punishment kept to a minimum. He points out that a positive approach doesn't mean being "laid-back" and can be just as demanding as a negative one, except rewards tend to predominate over punishments.

The article goes on to discuss the nuances of motivating athletes to include understanding that some athletes prefer a more negative approach. But as Dr. Crust points out, "I have met a few athletes who feel motivated by punishment. However, I have yet to meet an athlete who doesn’t enjoy being on the receiving end of praise..."

As for critics who point out that there have been successful coaches who were known for their negative approach, Dr. Crust argues that "it sometimes goes unnoticed that these same coaches are exceptional tacticians or have great technical expertise. In such cases it is highly likely that their success is attributable to these qualities rather than their negative approach to coaching."

[ZenMasterTao]

Here's my two cents:

Motivation - Want to motivate a player, put a bunch of hungry girls on the bench just inching for that opportunity to step in and become a starter.

Humiliation - it isn't telling the girl to hit a cutoff or throw to a base, that's a teaching opportunity. I understand what you are trying to say Skarp and tend to agree but I see to much ripping and tearing down especially in the 10U and 12U level. I argue, there are much better methods that provide better results.

Results - The only measure parents use is w's and l's. Some of worst coaches out there consistently win. Some of the best coaches out there do not consistently win.

[WildRoseCoach]

OK here we go. First year 12U team. First year player to TB plays 2B. She is leading the team in errors. I can't tell you how many times we have told/shown her how to properly field ground balls, yet she consistently makes the SAME mistakes both in practice and in games. In our last tournament during a pretty close game she again makes an error on a routine ground ball. I call her off the field and replace her. Oh yes Mr. Sally My Kid is Perfect spouts off "You pull her after 1 error? What an ass", I start to get up but assistant coach talkes to him first.

Anyway, I've tried patientce with her, I've taken her aside for one-on-one fielding drills, I tried running her. Nothing is working yet.

A side note, about a month ago I talked to each girl individually on what to work on. Of course I told her that she really needs to work on her own on fielding. Yup I asked her last night if she has been practicing on her own.....Guess what she said, no. Go figure!!!

What to do?

[3Bsnag]

She sits, period. Leads the team in errors and won't work on it herself? I'd even be willing to put a "lesser" player there on principle.

From a parents perspective, I would completely understand if you (coach) have a short discussion with the kid and parents (just because she's young and new to TB), but primarily talking to the player. "Sally, I enjoy having you here, but I need you to work on your fielding. You are going to have to earn your way back in the starting lineup and here's why...."

Even parents with "superstars", can't dispute facts.

[Sam]

OK here we go. First year 12U team. First year player to TB plays 2B. She is leading the team in errors. I can't tell you how many times we have told/shown her how to properly field ground balls, yet she consistently makes the SAME mistakes both in practice and in games. In our last tournament during a pretty close game she again makes an error on a routine ground ball. I call her off the field and replace her. Oh yes Mr. Sally My Kid is Perfect spouts off "You pull her after 1 error? What an ass", I start to get up but assistant coach talkes to him first.

Anyway, I've tried patientce with her, I've taken her aside for one-on-one fielding drills, I tried running her. Nothing is working yet.

A side note, about a month ago I talked to each girl individually on what to work on. Of course I told her that she really needs to work on her own on fielding. Yup I asked her last night if she has been practicing on her own.....Guess what she said, no. Go figure!!!

What to do?

A. You don't pull the kid in the middle of an inning for making a physical error unless she just isn't even trying.

B. You don't take that crap from any parent. Wait 24 hours after the game to cool down and let the parent know that they are off the team.

C. Why in the blue hell do you keep sending this kid out there, setting her up to fail?

[WildRoseCoach]

A

. You don't pull the kid in the middle of an inning for making a physical error unless she just isn't even trying.

B. You don't take that crap from any parent. Wait 24 hours after the game to cool down and let the parent know that they are off the team.

C. Why in the blue hell do you keep sending this kid out there, setting her up to fail?

A - Good point, that was the first time I have done that.
B - We do have a rule that parents aren't supposed to talk like that during the game. Said parent hasn't approached me since.
C - I do see huge potential in this girl and I want her to get better and gain experience. Plus we have an injured player.

[Sam]

A

. You don't pull the kid in the middle of an inning for making a physical error unless she just isn't even trying.

B. You don't take that crap from any parent. Wait 24 hours after the game to cool down and let the parent know that they are off the team.

C. Why in the blue hell do you keep sending this kid out there, setting her up to fail?

A - Good point, that was the first time I have done that.
B - We do have a rule that parents aren't supposed to talk like that during the game. Said parent hasn't approached me since.
C - I do see huge potential in this girl and I want her to get better and gain experience. Plus we have an injured player.

Sounds similar to the guy who is surprised that his wife is cheating on him...after she cheated on her previous two husbands....and cheated on her then-husband to be with him...and he beats her for cheating on him....

[Skarp]

I understand what you are trying to say Skarp and tend to agree but I see to much ripping and tearing down especially in the 10U and 12U level. I argue, there are much better methods that provide better results.

Agreed. And equally problematic is what the kids are typically being ripped and torn down for. If as a coach you have specifically and repeatedly coached a kid on a particular responsibility (say, backing up a throw) and she still isn't doing it, then by all means show the kid a little emotion to let her know you aren't just telling her that just to hear yourself talk. But if the same kid misses an easy fly ball, what is there to yell about (unless she didn't even try for it)? She's 12, she's going to make mistakes, and probably lots of them.

I also think that, at least with rec players and to a lesser extent with travel, a coach should focus on a few responsibilities at a time that are actually "punish-worthy." So the kid can make any bone-headed mistake in the world, so long as she remembers to back up that throw (for instance). Then, when she's got that down, add in the next thing or two that you want to get in place. That way the kid knows exactly what is expected of her at all times, and exactly what she will get in trouble for if she forgets. So if she does get in trouble, it's on her and she knows it.

Actually the only thing guaranteed to piss me off when I'm coaching is poor effort (you're wasting my time) or a bad/selfish attitude (you're being a lousy teammate). Express ticket to the pine.

[ZenMasterTao]

Skarp, don't want to turn this into a lovefest but I'm in agreement with you 100%. Yup, both things you brought up I agree completely. Physical Errors vs. Mental mistakes. Physical Errors are going to happen to all players at all levels moreso in the younger ones. Work on the mental mistakes, try to not focus on the physical errors.

The second one, I think is what I call progressive development. I think a player needs to be built progressively. Add to the skillset, improve the skillset and keep reinforcing previously learned skills in a logical progression. I think a lot of coaches do this poorly with a more random approach, kinda like sticking your finger in the hole in the dam. Heck, I see it in the workplace all the time!