my dislike for travel ball compared to high school ball

[slapperdad]

Having been involved with a seeding discussion with Blake Ress, and being privy to the same discussion with Bobby Cox, heir to the throne, seeding ain't happening anytime soon.

[softball_rules5]

And that is truly travesty of every HS sport (except wrestling, who would have thought they would get it right, ) - This is why IMHO Indiana HS sports will always be behind the times. Get out of the "Good ole days" IHSAA and join us in the here and now. Maybe try unlocking that door you guys call an open mind.

[Scooby26]

I guess the lack of seeding for the tournament in Indiana has never bothered me. Eventually in order to advance you will have to beat the better teams anyways, so what's the difference if that time comes in the first game or third game? It's comparable to getting a good or bad draw in a travel ball tournament (without the loser's bracket)---you just have to beat the team that's on the field with you.

[softball_rules5]

First of all your comparing a three month season to a weekend tournament. Playing well over a span of 4 days is a lot easier than playing well for an extended period of time.

Secondly, you would prefer to see two teams with a combined 5 losses on the season, both ranked in the top 10 play each other the first game of a tournament where the nerves are high (not that they wouldn't be in the championship game, but a different type of nerves) and then watch another team with 15 losses advance to championship with the benefit of a bye. I agree, you play who is in front of you, but make the season mean something just as pool play means something at a tournament.

[slapperdad]

Seeding is not a huge deal for me, however I think it does end up costing money, at least in the revenue generating sports. One example right off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are more, in 91 in Sectional 15 in Football, 3 or the top 6 ranked teams in 4A Football drew into the same side of the bracket. The team that came out of that played the championship game on the road where the only thing in question before the game was how big the margin of victory was going to be. They did so on a cold rainy first Friday in November. Attendance was largely limited to parents and a handful of fans. Now had you had two ranked teams playing that game, there no doubt would have been a larger gate.

The IHSAA's take on seeding is, they love the luck of the draw scenario. I think a lot of it goes back to the tradition of our Basketball tournament and "that's just the way we've always done it". Many times I think the draw does effect the outcome of tournaments, at least in a one and done format. I tend to agree with what was stated earlier, you're going to have win the games, it doesn't matter whether you play in the opening round or the championship.

And I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that Indiana is behind the times. We are competing with national powers, at least to the extent we can even play them (IHSAA 300 mile rule), in sports where we have the opportunity, Football, Boys Basketball, and Girls Basketball. Not sure how many other sports venture outside the state on a regular basis. Many states look at our "all in" format in all sports, including Football with envy, though there is a contingency growing to move back to a playoff system in Football.

[Scooby26]

I can buy into the seeding argument from a financial perspective but I'm having a tough time getting on board with Rules take. The successful regular season already has it's own payoffs (conference titles, rivalry bragging rights, etc.), I really don't see a need to tie it in with the tourney. As I said earlier, you will have to beat them all eventually anyways,so what's the difference? I'll enjoy watching 2 good teams battle in the first round just as much as watching the same two teams collide in a later round. Do you think the girls from Penn last year would have been less upset if they would have been beaten by Mishawaka in the sectional championship game instead of the opening round? or that the girl's from Mishawaka were less jubilant because their toughest win came in the first game instead of the championship? I'll bet the spectator's weren't saying to themselves--"wow, if this were the championship game it sure would be a lot more exciting". JMO

[slapperdad]

Which brings up another interesting point Scooby, say you get the big win, upset, rival, or otherwise in the first round. How many teams have you seen come out flat the next day and lay an egg? I have always felt like the 1980 Miracle team had a great win over the Russians on Friday night, but I thought their bigger challenge was beating Finland on Sunday morning.

[hittinseedz]

Would be awful tough to seed, so many variables to go by. Do you go wins and losses, hard to do will the level of competition on schedule changes so much from team to team. Also tough to go on wins and losses cause there are always some teams that lose 7-8 games do to weather. About the only way you could would be rank all the teams in each class and what they end up at the end of the season then split them for their sectionals......try ranking 90 teams per class when you may know about 40 of them

[softball_rules5]

OK, let's tell the NCAA that there is no need to seed the NCAA tourney because they should just play it out. Better yet, let's just jump straight into State tournament and forget the regular season. Your missing the point IMO. Yes winning the conference is a reward, yes having a good season is a reward. However, when IHSAA says they do not want to seed any tournament they are basically saying lets have chance play the biggest factor instead of teams that have proven themselves. If the ultimate goal is to win the State tournament, then why not reward those teams that have earned the right to be seeded higher.

As for the logistics of seeding being an issue, Illinois and may other states don't seem to have any problems with it and I have talked to a lot of coaches that have been to dozens of seeding meetings and it really isn't that hard.

I must say that I have truly enjoyed the banter of this conversation and really feel for the most part it has been civil. It's funny this started out as why TB was better than HS (I think, it has been so long since we started it) and turned into what the problem with State tournament is. Next thing you know we'll start talking about that whole class thing

[Laces_Out]

This is a good subject that involves a lot of variables. Travel Ball is not created equally across the board. High school coaches and the school's pool of talent are not created equally either. In travel ball, the player and parents pick the organization or coach they think is the best fit. In high school, there is little or no choice. The coach is the coach. For those of us that choose year round, high $, time and committment to softball via TB, is can be a long 3 months with a high school coach that is....lacking. It has been my experience that dissatified parents in high school, sooner rather than later, let their opinions be known. Result: the high school coach speaks out against TB. And let's face it, because TB is not created equally, the high school coach may or may not have a point as well.

Healthy school rivalry: maybe they do still exist...I haven't seen one in awhile. I mean a true rival game where the bleachers are full and moms and dads take off work be/c they wouldn't miss that game for the world.

But "being seen" via high school doesn't happen anymore. Go to camps and play TB to be seen. If a college coach comes to the high school game that is the icing on the cake.