43 feet at 14U?

[soreshins]

If a first year 14U pitcher is regularly "getting blasted" by 14U hitters, the problem may not be a distance issue. If you are trying to throw fastballs (straight ptiches) past 14U hitters, you are going to get lit up. This is more a transition from 12U level to 14U level competition. A fat pitch from 43 feet is still a fat pitch from 40 feet. Whether the rubber is at 40 feet or 43 feet, 14U hitters put the ball in play more often and hit the ball more sharply than 12U hitters.

There is a group of kids who can pitch effectively at 40 feet who will never be effective at 43 feet. Those players are mostly high school pitchers who usually do not pitch for travel ball teams. However, in many states the high schools are now moving to 43 feet.

"Getting blasted" occasionally is part of the development process for any pitcher. Figure out what happened, learn from it and move on to the next start. They have to learn composure and they have to learn how to keep the 3 run inning from becoming a 6 run inning.

[soreshins]

Sam

I don't necessarily accept your assertion that merely moving back 3 feet creates "trauma" or results in injury. If you have data showing that increasing distance alone creates injury, I would like to see it.

I agree that wear & tear and overuse injuries are a problem. But that is a frequency/mechanics issue not a distance issue.

[Sam]

If a first year 14U pitcher is regularly "getting blasted" by 14U hitters, the problem may not be a distance issue. If you are trying to throw fastballs (straight ptiches) past 14U hitters, you are going to get lit up. This is more a transition from 12U level to 14U level competition. A fat pitch from 43 feet is still a fat pitch from 40 feet. Whether the rubber is at 40 feet or 43 feet, 14U hitters put the ball in play more often and hit the ball more sharply than 12U hitters.

There is a group of kids who can pitch effectively at 40 feet who will never be effective at 43 feet. Those players are mostly high school pitchers who usually do not pitch for travel ball teams. However, in many states the high schools are now moving to 43 feet.

"Getting blasted" occasionally is part of the development process for any pitcher. Figure out what happened, learn from it and move on to the next start. They have to learn composure and they have to learn how to keep the 3 run inning from becoming a 6 run inning.

Really? A pitch on the outside corner moving in towards the batter at 40' is a great pitch....at 43' it catches a lot more of the plate.

So what's your point? There is no reason to make 14U's go to 43'. None. Nada. Zero. The change will likely hurt the pitchers' arms. How does that help the game or the girls?

[soreshins]

Sam

I am not advocating moving the pitching distance for 14U back to 43 feet. All I am saying is that it is not that big a transition.

We will have to agree to disagree on whether merely increasing distance causes trauma or injury.

Apart from a "back door" curve ball, I am not aware of a pitch "on the outside corner" that would be intended to get less plate at 40 feet and and more plate at 43. Most pitches are intended to move off the plate rather than onto the plate. The pitchers I have been around were not throwing back door curve balls at 12U or 14U.

[Sam]

Sam

I am not advocating moving the pitching distance for 14U back to 43 feet. All I am saying is that it is not that big a transition.

We will have to agree to disagree on whether merely increasing distance causes trauma or injury.

Apart from a "back door" curve ball, I am not aware of a pitch "on the outside corner" that would be intended to get less plate at 40 feet and and more plate at 43. Most pitches are intended to move off the plate rather than onto the plate. The pitchers I have been around were not throwing back door curve balls at 12U or 14U.

Curve ball inside corner to a RH hitter at 40' gets 1/3 of the plate at 43'.

[ontheblack]

The transition at 12U from 35 to 40 is a much bigger transition.

Well, it is a different kind of transition. The ball is bigger and the extra 5' does make a difference for the average kid moving from 10s to 12s. Most are still learning to pitch and if they are lucky, have command of two pitches, a fastball and a change. They are learning those pitches which require spin from a twisting wrist, like the screw, curve and rise.

The issue at 14s isn't about pitching speed and balls being hit back up the middle, its about biomechanics and the well being of the musculoskeletal system of a young teen.

At 43', there is more torque on the joints and growth plates in order to get the same break and movement that you get at 40'. The biggest factor here is that, with few exceptions, 13 yr old girls are still growing. That means growth plates (areas of growing tissue located at both ends of long bones that close and fill in with solid bone once the skeletal system stops growing) are susceptible to injury. This is EXACTLY why baseball limits pitches for boys and discourages a reliance on the curve ball. The difference is that girls generally stop growing before boys.

I don't necessarily accept your assertion that merely moving back 3 feet creates "trauma" or results in injury. If you have data showing that increasing distance alone creates injury, I would like to see it.

Sam hit on it with the example of the breaking ball. It takes more spin at a longer distance to get the same result. The rise is the best example. The more spin, coupled with speed, the later the break and more effective the pitch. Change those two factors and you have a rise thrown for a strike vs one out of the zone.

I agree that wear & tear and overuse injuries are a problem. But that is a frequency/mechanics issue not a distance issue.

Actually it's both. Pitching is the combination of biomechanics and physics. More spin means more wrist action, even with proper mechanics (which is an entirely different thread). There is a ball that measures spin, so its pretty easy to test the amount of spin and its impact on movement.

If ASA and Premier decide to move the distance back, they need to support that decision with medical evidence. The onus is on them to prove its safe in order to justify the change, not the other way around

Unfortunately most of what I read here from people in support of the change is why its better for the game, or more accurately, less inconvenience for a handful of people for 3 months during the 2nd year of 14U. This decision needs to be made based on what is in the overall best interests of the health of all the 13 and 14 year old girls that will be impacted. To do anything less than that is to prove what many believe - that winning is the bottom line.

This a sport where we have no guidelines for pitching safety, and an out of touch governing body that has repeatedly put profit and convenience over practical, sound decisions. Once this change has been made there will be no going back. Therefor it is crucial that there is objective deliberation with the benefit of the doubt be given to safety over convenience.

If anyone has any info on what people or committee will be making the recommendations on this deliberation, please post it here.

[3'sDad]

DD had her pitching lesson the other evening and PC and I had this exact conversation. PC said to me whether @ 40' or 43' there is an adjustment to be made @ moving from 12U to 14U. PC opinion was she would be concerned for safety if her pitcher is throwing 45 MPH fastballs at 43' for 14U that these pitches could be hit hard........but someone throwing at 45 mph at this age should not be pitching.

DD practiced at 43' for the 1st time. The movement pitchs were better as the additonal distance helped. I really didn't notice loss of velocity on the FB. Where the distance difference was most evident was on the CU. DD needs to adjust her release point as the CU was hitting on the plate at 43'. She also needs to throw the CU with a bit more authority to the velocity difference between the FB and CU smaller. These adjustments are what she will work on the Fall/Winter to be ready for Spring.

DD is 13 and cruises at 52-53 mph on the FB. The 7.5% decrease in velocity due to the additional distance (40'-43') takes the fastball down to about 50 mph. This is an advantage to the hitter for this year until she makes up the difference. Same thing happens going fron 35' to 40'....advantage hitter until the pitchers adjust.

[1prouddad]

Sam

I am not advocating moving the pitching distance for 14U back to 43 feet. All I am saying is that it is not that big a transition.

We will have to agree to disagree on whether merely increasing distance causes trauma or injury.

Apart from a "back door" curve ball, I am not aware of a pitch "on the outside corner" that would be intended to get less plate at 40 feet and and more plate at 43. Most pitches are intended to move off the plate rather than onto the plate. The pitchers I have been around were not throwing back door curve balls at 12U or 14U.

Curve ball inside corner to a RH hitter at 40' gets 1/3 of the plate at 43'.

True.......If the release is exactly the same. A good pitcher that can hit her spots at 40' will still be able to hit her spots at 43' with minor adjustments.
I don't agree with 43' - I seriously wish that high schools would go back to 40'.
That being said, I don't think that pitching at 43' is going to be a big factor injury wise to the pitcher. If a pitcher has bad mechanics, I can see an added strain on the body, but she's going to have problems at whatever distance she throws unless she fixes it.
I do think that pitching at 43' really gives the batter a much greater advantage being able to see that ball an extra 3' though. Bring it back to 40' and everyone will be happy (except for the hitters!

[Sftbll4ever]

Sam

I am not advocating moving the pitching distance for 14U back to 43 feet. All I am saying is that it is not that big a transition.

We will have to agree to disagree on whether merely increasing distance causes trauma or injury.

Apart from a "back door" curve ball, I am not aware of a pitch "on the outside corner" that would be intended to get less plate at 40 feet and and more plate at 43. Most pitches are intended to move off the plate rather than onto the plate. The pitchers I have been around were not throwing back door curve balls at 12U or 14U.

Curve ball inside corner to a RH hitter at 40' gets 1/3 of the plate at 43'.

True.......If the release is exactly the same. A good pitcher that can hit her spots at 40' will still be able to hit her spots at 43' with minor adjustments.
I don't agree with 43' - I seriously wish that high schools would go back to 40'.
That being said, I don't think that pitching at 43' is going to be a big factor injury wise to the pitcher. If a pitcher has bad mechanics, I can see an added strain on the body, but she's going to have problems at whatever distance she throws unless she fixes it.
I do think that pitching at 43' really gives the batter a much greater advantage being able to see that ball an extra 3' though. Bring it back to 40' and everyone will be happy (except for the hitters!

I don't agree with moving it back to 43'. I think at the Varsity level where typically, the pitchers are playing at a higher level in travel is a great idea. I do however, think that maybe keep JV at 40'. It is hard enough for some of these girls to pitch at 40 let alone 43.

[Sam]

Sam

I am not advocating moving the pitching distance for 14U back to 43 feet. All I am saying is that it is not that big a transition.

We will have to agree to disagree on whether merely increasing distance causes trauma or injury.

Apart from a "back door" curve ball, I am not aware of a pitch "on the outside corner" that would be intended to get less plate at 40 feet and and more plate at 43. Most pitches are intended to move off the plate rather than onto the plate. The pitchers I have been around were not throwing back door curve balls at 12U or 14U.

Curve ball inside corner to a RH hitter at 40' gets 1/3 of the plate at 43'.

True.......If the release is exactly the same. A good pitcher that can hit her spots at 40' will still be able to hit her spots at 43' with minor adjustments.
I don't agree with 43' - I seriously wish that high schools would go back to 40'.
That being said, I don't think that pitching at 43' is going to be a big factor injury wise to the pitcher. If a pitcher has bad mechanics, I can see an added strain on the body, but she's going to have problems at whatever distance she throws unless she fixes it.
I do think that pitching at 43' really gives the batter a much greater advantage being able to see that ball an extra 3' though. Bring it back to 40' and everyone will be happy (except for the hitters!

It may not be a big factor, but if it is a factor at all....why do it? If only a 2% increase in overuse or joint injuries in pitchers comes out of this...is it worth it? It isn't for those kids that have to put their lives at risk by undergoing surgery.