Follow
Donate to HeyBucket.com - Amount:

Welcome Anonymous !

Your Fastpitch Softball Bible
 

Fastpitch Discussions

Question about Friendlies

What's on your mind?

by Sam » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:27 am

Skarp wrote:
Spazsdad wrote:
NumeroUno wrote:Minors Gold, Winchester Park, Big parking lot right next to all 3 fields and a snack bar that will remind you of mamas home made Sunday night dinner. Okay not that good but the food is top notch.


I'm holding you to that. See you on the 9th.

Sam and Skarp time to take it the back room!


Moi?? I'm just debating a topic on the merits as I see them. Is that still allowed here? :mrgreen:

Sam? Well...Sam's avatar pretty much says it all. Sam's a veteran. Sam expects you to respect his authority. Sam doesn't like to be contradicted. Sam makes it personal when he is. Sam browbeats people into submission and imagines that qualifies as argumentative victory. Well fair warning...Sam should choose his targets more carefully from now on.


You are almost correct up until the point where you perceive that I make it personal. What I actually do is evaluate your relative knowledge of the subject. If you are ignorant, I point it out...but its a factual statement...not a derogatory personal statement. If you deny your ignorance, I will continue to point it out....you consider that to be browbeating. You should have picked a subject you knew more about or something you knew more about than I do...but good luck next time.
Run your mouth when I'm not around
Its easy to achieve
You cry to weak friends that sympathize
- Pantera, Walk
User avatar
Sam
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3174
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:22 am
Location: Norco, California

by NumeroUno » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:50 am

Ding Ding Ding Ding back to your corners..
Help support heybucket and become a premium member today for only $12.00 a year
premium.html
User avatar
NumeroUno
 
Posts: 8913
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:50 pm

by Skarp » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:28 am

Sam wrote:
Skarp wrote:
Sam wrote:A. You are the only one arguing that anybody is owed money.

Ummm...let's see. My only argument has been that I am not obligated to buy food from your snack bar. Not that I won't, not that people shouldn't...just that I'm not obligated to. That's the proposition that you've been arguing against. So if your argument is that I'm obligated to buy stuff from you whether or not I want it, how is it that you are not arguing that I owe you money? That's precisely what you are arguing.

In truth, you are becoming a bore (as well as a boor, which you've been from the beginning). You're also a bit out of your depth, as evidenced by your propensity to call names and assassinate character rather than just engage in debate. I will continue to respect your opinion when respect is due (and typically it is). Your person...well, that's another matter.


So now that you have lost the argument, you resort to outright lying....all the while doing precisely what you wrongly accuse me of....very nice, Skarp. You're better than that aren't you? If you can point to an instance where I have called names and assassinated anyone's character, please do so....or shut up.


First of all...I'm not going to "shut up." As I said before, browbeating is a tactic that works for you with other people. It won't with me. That said, let's inventory your comments shall we?

First post out of the gate: "You people are frickin' amazing..." It's not enough for you to disagree with the arguments being made...you level a personal comment (for those new to English, "amazing" means stupid, classless, ignorant, or some combination of the above in this context).

Second post: You're argument is "stupid," your argument is "dumb," you don't know what you are talking about, your opinion is garbage because "you've never run a friendly." Aside from the fact that my argument isn't dependent upon knowledge of how to run friendlies--apparently the only thing you do know anything about--it again isn't enough for you to just make your own counter-arguments. You have to render judgments on me personally (which judgments, by the way, are made out of thin air...you don't know the first damn thing about me). If my reasoning is flawed, by all means point that out. But your constant need to belittle others as know-nothings and elevate yourself as some kind of guru are tired and pointless (not to mention fallacious--appeal to authority was categorized as an argumentative fallacy even before Aristotle walked the earth).

Third post: "You're whiner who has never actually done anything himself." "The people who have supported you are 10U posters (i.e., "idiots")." Apparently anyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

Fourth post: "Veterans are too busy laughing at you to post a response." So the people who have posted in agreement with me are stupid...those who have remained silent of course support your position and are laughing at me. Any factual support for these claims? Of course not...you don't need any...you're a veteran.

Sixth post: "Us veterans will console oursel[ves] with the wisdom that teams full of people such as yourself get weeded out fairly quickly." People such as myself? What kind of people are those? You don't know me, and you don't know anything about me. You certainly don't know how much much money my team spends at snack bars, how we leave the dugout, how respectfully we conduct ourselves while attending friendlies, etc. The only thing you know about me is that I disagree with your opinion that you know how I should spend my money better than I do. I disagree with you, and you can't have that. 'Cuz you're a veteran.

Personal slights as a substitute for sound argument are second-nature to you Sam. I don't think you even realize it when you do it. Don't worry...I'll let you know. Now swim along little one...see if you can make it back to the shallow end.
There is no charge for awesomeness
...or attractiveness.
User avatar
Skarp
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:10 pm

by Sam » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:01 am

Skarp,

Continually lying about what I write is no way to win an argument. If you put something in quotes, it should be an actual quote...which you have not done with your rather lengthy diatribe.

What I have posted is factual...I don't have to lie.

I don't have to start posts anonymously about classless organizations hoping to expose teams that I'm too afraid to name myself.

Lets try an experiment.....to see who is really right here....lets have all teams that play in the Franchise Mothers Day Tournament bring their own food....and then see how much that organization charges for their next tournament....and then see who plays in that tournament.
Run your mouth when I'm not around
Its easy to achieve
You cry to weak friends that sympathize
- Pantera, Walk
User avatar
Sam
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3174
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:22 am
Location: Norco, California

by Skarp » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:30 am

Sam wrote:Skarp,

Continually lying about what I write is no way to win an argument. If you put something in quotes, it should be an actual quote...which you have not done with your rather lengthy diatribe.

What I have posted is factual...I don't have to lie.

I don't have to start posts anonymously about classless organizations hoping to expose teams that I'm too afraid to name myself.

Lets try an experiment.....to see who is really right here....lets have all teams that play in the Franchise Mothers Day Tournament bring their own food....and then see how much that organization charges for their next tournament....and then see who plays in that tournament.


Don't mischaracterize my argument so that you can knock down a straw man. I have never advocated a boycott of host snack bars. I've made that clear umpteen times in this thread. If that's the proposition you are arguing against, perhaps you should learn to read more carefully. Let me reiterate my position once again, so that hopefully you will understand it. I am not obligated to buy anything from a host team's snack bar simply because they have stuff to buy. If something they offer strikes my fancy, then by all means I will buy it, but I am not obligated to do so. Now, do you disagree with that proposition, yes or no? If you disagree...if in fact we are obligated to buy stuff from the snack bar whether or not we want anything from it, why not just sell your grass clippings? You'll get a better profit.

And by the way, I invite anyone to go back and read your posts and decide for themselves whether I've mischaracterized them. You toss around personal insults all the time...have for years. Your posts speak for themselves.
There is no charge for awesomeness
...or attractiveness.
User avatar
Skarp
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:10 pm

by Blind Squirrel » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:55 am

Strictly speaking, I don't see where either of you (Sam and Skarp) are wrong with your core assertion. Big friendlies are done to raise money and snack bars are a part of that. Last summer, the org. my kid plays for hosted one. I spent 6 hours emptying trash cans and fetching snack bar supplies. OOOOh was that fun. It was my contribution to an effort to raise money. If nobody buys crap at the snack bar, the org. doesn't host any more friendlies. Why would they? And no, Skarp, not you personally, nor any individual is obligated to buy stuff they don't want. And if every day I walked into the office and when people said "Good morning John" I didn't respond, it wouldn't be long before they would rightly think I'm a dick and they would shun me. I'm not obligated to respond but there are consequences if I don't. Skarp, I suspect you get that and are simply staking out a position that is easily defensible in theory. No problems here.

So I agree with both of you and I disagree with both of you. If you guys would change course slightly and beat on me instead of each other, it would at least change the dynamic.

John
10 years from now I'll wish I felt like I do these days.
User avatar
Blind Squirrel
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 1138
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:02 am

by NumeroUno » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:49 pm

Blind Squirrel I don't care what they say about you I think that you are a GOOD KID :D
Help support heybucket and become a premium member today for only $12.00 a year
premium.html
User avatar
NumeroUno
 
Posts: 8913
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:50 pm

by Sam » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:54 pm

Skarp wrote:
Sam wrote:Skarp,

Continually lying about what I write is no way to win an argument. If you put something in quotes, it should be an actual quote...which you have not done with your rather lengthy diatribe.

What I have posted is factual...I don't have to lie.

I don't have to start posts anonymously about classless organizations hoping to expose teams that I'm too afraid to name myself.

Lets try an experiment.....to see who is really right here....lets have all teams that play in the Franchise Mothers Day Tournament bring their own food....and then see how much that organization charges for their next tournament....and then see who plays in that tournament.


Don't mischaracterize my argument so that you can knock down a straw man. I have never advocated a boycott of host snack bars. I've made that clear umpteen times in this thread. If that's the proposition you are arguing against, perhaps you should learn to read more carefully. Let me reiterate my position once again, so that hopefully you will understand it. I am not obligated to buy anything from a host team's snack bar simply because they have stuff to buy. If something they offer strikes my fancy, then by all means I will buy it, but I am not obligated to do so. Now, do you disagree with that proposition, yes or no? If you disagree...if in fact we are obligated to buy stuff from the snack bar whether or not we want anything from it, why not just sell your grass clippings? You'll get a better profit.

And by the way, I invite anyone to go back and read your posts and decide for themselves whether I've mischaracterized them. You toss around personal insults all the time...have for years. Your posts speak for themselves.


You are and have been arguing against my argument....which is....when people don't feel like they are obligated to support the hosts' reasonable fundraising efforts...a snack bar....sooner or later it won't be worth hosting. You were advocating the power of your wallet...fine...I have explained over and over what that kind of thinking will do to the game. Even good snack bar food just isn't that good...but you buy it anyway because its easy, its filling, and maybe the host of the friendly will find it in their heart to ask you back...because your team...your DD benefits from these folks' hard work. Recognizing that hard work by spending $3.00 for a hamburger and a soda isn't hard...its easy....and you should do it....because if enough people don't do it, friendlies will disappear....and SoCal will become just another part of the country...it won't be the Mecca of Softball....we play better than anybody else because we invented the friendly and we have them all year long. Maybe when you are more experienced in the game you will understand doing things for the greater good of the game. If your DD ever plays Gold ball, you will be introduced to some of the veterans that actually run the game and have some control over how much exposure your team gets....they base their decisions on whether or not your manager is a veteran. Doesn't matter how good your team is or isn't. Oh sure, its fun to argue now....but later on, you might wish that you would have listened to a more sage poster than yourself.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree...because I know my advice will help the game...will yours?
Run your mouth when I'm not around
Its easy to achieve
You cry to weak friends that sympathize
- Pantera, Walk
User avatar
Sam
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3174
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:22 am
Location: Norco, California

by Sam » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:55 pm

Blind Squirrel wrote:Strictly speaking, I don't see where either of you (Sam and Skarp) are wrong with your core assertion. Big friendlies are done to raise money and snack bars are a part of that. Last summer, the org. my kid plays for hosted one. I spent 6 hours emptying trash cans and fetching snack bar supplies. OOOOh was that fun. It was my contribution to an effort to raise money. If nobody buys crap at the snack bar, the org. doesn't host any more friendlies. Why would they? And no, Skarp, not you personally, nor any individual is obligated to buy stuff they don't want. And if every day I walked into the office and when people said "Good morning John" I didn't respond, it wouldn't be long before they would rightly think I'm a dick and they would shun me. I'm not obligated to respond but there are consequences if I don't. Skarp, I suspect you get that and are simply staking out a position that is easily defensible in theory. No problems here.

So I agree with both of you and I disagree with both of you. If you guys would change course slightly and beat on me instead of each other, it would at least change the dynamic.

John


Is beating a blind squirrel anything like spanking a monkey?
Run your mouth when I'm not around
Its easy to achieve
You cry to weak friends that sympathize
- Pantera, Walk
User avatar
Sam
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Posts: 3174
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:22 am
Location: Norco, California

by daylightkate » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:01 pm

Sam expects you to respect his authority. Sam doesn't like to be contradicted. Sam makes it personal when he is. Sam browbeats people into submission and imagines that qualifies as argumentative victory.


Wow, that's calling the kettle black.Omit Sam and insert Sk... :roll:
daylightkate
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:51 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Fastpitch Discussions