USA Junior Olympic Cup update

[AlwaysImprove]

I didn't like Gary because he decided to $hit on the Gold teams from SoCal who he didn't deem worthy of competing with his teams.

Maybe he didn't want to contribute to other coaches/parents abusing their kids and causing overuse injuries.

Nope. Just an arrogant ass who didn't want to be bothered by having to play teams that were below his level. The problem was that his teams were no longer dominant. He was thinking that he was still in the 1990's with Bruder's Raiders and Gordon's Panthers as the only competition. He was pissed off that some very good talent was choosing to play in programs that weren't part of his GOB network.

He accomplished his goal when SoCal ASA allowed him to change qualifying tournament entry rules and limits on teams. Then he quit and started PGF with similar qualifying rules. He could have left the ASA part alone and started PGF but the egotistical bastard had to ruin ASA first and ruin recruitment possibilities for lots of young ladies who would have been seen at the SoCal ASA qualifier playing against top competition.

ASA seemed way to anxious to dig their own grave. My way or the highway. To me it was not really Gary that led the charge. Many were frustrated with him, as he continued to try and force everyone to stay and work with ASA. Only after it became so ludicrous in ASA land with their my way or the highway approach. Well highway it is. And the sport is much better for it.

[jonriv]

Will this ASA vs PGF softball civil war ever end My thoughts on this are pretty simple. ASAs current plan seems both stupid and desperate. PGFs comments on it are equally stupid and um-needed. Why even comment. I am surprised that ASA has not used its biggest hammer-price. As a non-profit ASA can undercut PGFs price by a substantial margin- seems to me their best weapon as opposed to this other crap.

Some facts- as a non-profit, ASA not only does not make a profit, but there fiinancials are PUBLIC. No one is getting rich there, all the Money is put back out there. We can arguee on the wisdom of what they spend, but to call them Money hungry seems inaccurate. PGF is for profit nadd I give credit to those guys that had a beef and actually put there Money where there mouth is. They developed a product that is in demand. I never understand why antone would question the fact that they make a profit No one is forced to buy their product, if you don~t like it or don~t need it- don~t buy it. I for one wish I could make a living on Softball- sounds like heaven.

All softball organizations have their plusses and minusses and there are more than enough to go around!

[NumeroUno]

Hey Sam Gary does not know me from Adam. I have talked to him a couple times over the years and he never seemed stuck up or arrogant to me. It doesn't make him a bad guy for not wanting to play your team. I bet there are 100 other teams that would like to play Gary's team but it just isn't possible.

I have met some very arrogant coaches over the years but I just don't see that in him.. jmho

[Sam]

Hey Sam Gary does not know me from Adam. I have talked to him a couple times over the years and he never seemed stuck up or arrogant to me. It doesn't make him a bad guy for not wanting to play your team. I bet there are 100 other teams that would like to play Gary's team but it just isn't possible.

I have met some very arrogant coaches over the years but I just don't see that in him.. jmho

I don't think you were around when he exclusively ran the Gold ASA program in SoCal and was the guy who ran all the showcase tournaments in the fall. Our teams were resigned to the fact that Gary would put whomever he wanted to wherever he wanted to for the showcase tournaments. The complaint came when he changed the Gold qualifying tournament in SoCal to include only team he deemed worthy of playing. The issue is that I had competitive kids whose only chance all year to face that level of competition came at that tournament because it was a Blind Draw DE tournament. He didn't want to play teams like mine, even though we all of our kids ended up playing in college.

[AlwaysImprove]

Hey Sam Gary does not know me from Adam. I have talked to him a couple times over the years and he never seemed stuck up or arrogant to me. It doesn't make him a bad guy for not wanting to play your team. I bet there are 100 other teams that would like to play Gary's team but it just isn't possible.

I have met some very arrogant coaches over the years but I just don't see that in him.. jmho

I don't think you were around when he exclusively ran the Gold ASA program in SoCal and was the guy who ran all the showcase tournaments in the fall. Our teams were resigned to the fact that Gary would put whomever he wanted to wherever he wanted to for the showcase tournaments. The complaint came when he changed the Gold qualifying tournament in SoCal to include only team he deemed worthy of playing. The issue is that I had competitive kids whose only chance all year to face that level of competition came at that tournament because it was a Blind Draw DE tournament. He didn't want to play teams like mine, even though we all of our kids ended up playing in college.

I was around back then. The push, to me, was never that this team does not want to play that team. It was that ASA was unbounded in their growth of teams in the tournaments. The tournaments were starting on Thursdays, and not finishing by Sunday. There seemed to be no end to the growth in the number of teams.

The concept was to come up with ways of better meeting the ever growing number of teams taht were starting up. Jamming everyone into a single tournament made anyone's fortune in the tournament totally dependent upon their draw. Add in a few rainouts. Then add in ASA's desire to pit teams against teams so they could turn the whole thing into one large samwich grab. It was a mess.

The only rational choice became obvious. Let ASA dig their grave so deep it has become the bunker under ASA hall of fame stadium, from which goofy ideas like this tournament are now envisioned as somehow sane. Gary decided at the latest of possible moments, at somewhat of a cost. Laying this at his feet makes no sense.

[PDad]

I am surprised that ASA has not used its biggest hammer-price. As a non-profit ASA can undercut PGFs price by a substantial margin

Low price doesn't work with people that mindlessly think "Buy cheap, get cheap."

Some facts- as a non-profit, ASA not only does not make a profit,

Semantics - NPO's have "surplus revenue." Not all NPO's are tax exempt and ones that are still have to pay taxes on unrelated business income (see ASA's 990-T returns).

No one is getting rich there, all the Money is put back out there.

People are making a healthy living off ASA, either internally as employees / officers or externally by doing business with ASA. Large ASA/USA Nats are a major source of income for the local business communities in out-of-the-way sites and consequently they host them as often as they can.

I agree every sanction has it's strengths and weaknesses. None of them are the best choice for all teams, so each team needs to choose the one(s) that are best for them.

[Sam]

AI,

Your memory doesn't exactly match my own and I had a team that played in the SoCal qualifier they year preceding the change SoCal ASA allowed Haning to change. The tournament was large but had no rainouts in Lancaster in June. Gary had his college players returning so he really had no issue other than the number of Gold teams and the fact that it was becoming much tougher for him to recruit all of the best players as he had in the past. The one way to do that was to get rid of his competitors, which SoCal ASA did. Then he went out on his own to form PGF when ASA didn't follow suit. This lays at his feet because that is where turds reside when they are dropped by the persons deficating.

[AlwaysImprove]

AI,

Your memory doesn't exactly match my own and I had a team that played in the SoCal qualifier they year preceding the change SoCal ASA allowed Haning to change. The tournament was large but had no rainouts in Lancaster in June. Gary had his college players returning so he really had no issue other than the number of Gold teams and the fact that it was becoming much tougher for him to recruit all of the best players as he had in the past. The one way to do that was to get rid of his competitors, which SoCal ASA did. Then he went out on his own to form PGF when ASA didn't follow suit. This lays at his feet because that is where turds reside when they are dropped by the persons deficating.

The year before the start of PGF, if you had a room of 100 coaches, and there was a PGF side and a ASA side, 80 would have been standing on the PGF side, Gary, yourself and few others on the ASA side.

That 80% had long stop talking to anyone at ASA. Most of us had been told "Shut up, no one is interested in your input. It is the our way or the highway." Any changes Gary was asking for at that point was a misguided last ditch effort to keep ASA relevant. Unfortunately, the writing was on the wall. The coaches were long done with ASA, and ASA made it more than clear that they did not care. ASA felt their hold on the National team, and Hall of fame stadium would force everyone to stay on board their samwich fueled willy wonka boat ride, no matter how psychedelic and ludicrous it was to become.

ASA stayed with this thinking so committed to their own demise that they have gone straight through the rabbit hole and landed in a place where this tournament made sense to them. ASA seems to still deny the inherent math/physics of what they are doing. No good teams, no good tournaments. Just no blaming that on Gary at this point. He gets the math.

[AlwaysImprove]

AI,

Your memory doesn't exactly match my own and I had a team that played in the SoCal qualifier they year preceding the change SoCal ASA allowed Haning to change. The tournament was large but had no rainouts in Lancaster in June. Gary had his college players returning so he really had no issue other than the number of Gold teams and the fact that it was becoming much tougher for him to recruit all of the best players as he had in the past. The one way to do that was to get rid of his competitors, which SoCal ASA did. Then he went out on his own to form PGF when ASA didn't follow suit. This lays at his feet because that is where turds reside when they are dropped by the persons deficating.

The year before the start of PGF, if you had a room of 100 coaches, and there was a PGF side and a ASA side, 80 would have been standing on the PGF side, Gary, yourself and few others on the ASA side.

That 80% had long stop talking to anyone at ASA. Most of us had been told "Shut up, no one is interested in your input. It is the our way or the highway." Any changes Gary was asking for at that point was a misguided last ditch effort to keep ASA relevant. Unfortunately, the writing was on the wall. The coaches were long done with ASA, and ASA made it more than clear that they did not care. ASA felt their hold on the National team, and Hall of fame stadium would force everyone to stay on board their samwich fueled willy wonka boat ride, no matter how psychedelic and ludicrous it was to become.

ASA stayed with this thinking so committed to their own demise that they have gone straight through the rabbit hole and landed in a place where this tournament made sense to them. ASA seems to still deny the inherent math/physics of what they are doing. No good teams, no good tournaments. Just no blaming that on Gary at this point. He gets the math.

[Sam]

The fact that everyone was fed up with ASA, in all age groups, was what fueled PGF. What nobody knew was whether or not PGF would be successful and last. AFA didn't last, TC lasted but never gained any prestige, USSSA was always a slow pitch org, etc. Nobody had been able to topple ASA. Haning tried to run PGF as an invitation driven Championship, but found out quickly that it wasn't feasible.

Everything he has done has a goal of limiting competition for players. Sadly, he still can't recruit championship teams, though he has stacked the deck in his favor....like it was in the 90's and 2000's.

No matter how you look at it, he screwed over teams in SoCal that had every right to play his or any other "elite" teams in the blind draw qualifier we all paid to enter. He loved our money when we came to him in the fall to play in his showcase tournaments. He just didn't want to play us when it mattered.