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Jury Idiocy Comes to Montana

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by SkinnyFats » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:28 pm

Skarp wrote:Also, it strikes me as somewhat patronizing to assume that teen-aged kids don't understand the dangers of the sport. They've all been beaned, taken bad hops to the face, and had enough close calls with rocket shots to be well aware of what could possibly happen to them. Lots of kids decide that the sport isn't for them at a much earlier age. Those who stick with it know exactly what they are dealing with....probably better than we do.

Adolescents process risk differently than adults do; their brains are still developing.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,994126-1,00.html

That is especially so because the brain regions that put the brakes on risky, impulsive behavior are still under construction. "The parts of the brain responsible for things like sensation seeking are getting turned on in big ways around the time of puberty," says Temple University psychologist Laurence Steinberg. "But the parts for exercising judgment are still maturing throughout the course of adolescence. So you've got this time gap between when things impel kids toward taking risks early in adolescence, and when things that allow people to think before they act come online. It's like turning on the engine of a car without a skilled driver at the wheel."

At Temple University, Steinberg has been studying another kind of judgment: risk assessment. In an experiment using a driving-simulation game, he studies teens and adults as they decide whether to run a yellow light. Both sets of subjects, he found, make safe choices when playing alone. But in group play, teenagers start to take more risks in the presence of their friends, while those over age 20 don't show much change in their behavior. "With this manipulation," says Steinberg, "we've shown that age differences in decision making and judgment may appear under conditions that are emotionally arousing or have high social impact."
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by coachmatt » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:41 pm

SkinnyFats wrote:
Skarp wrote:Also, it strikes me as somewhat patronizing to assume that teen-aged kids don't understand the dangers of the sport. They've all been beaned, taken bad hops to the face, and had enough close calls with rocket shots to be well aware of what could possibly happen to them. Lots of kids decide that the sport isn't for them at a much earlier age. Those who stick with it know exactly what they are dealing with....probably better than we do.

It's not patronizing at all. It's a fact the adolescents process risk differently than adults do; their brains are still developing.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,994126-1,00.html

As usual, a couple of quotes:

That is especially so because the brain regions that put the brakes on risky, impulsive behavior are still under construction. "The parts of the brain responsible for things like sensation seeking are getting turned on in big ways around the time of puberty," says Temple University psychologist Laurence Steinberg. "But the parts for exercising judgment are still maturing throughout the course of adolescence. So you've got this time gap between when things impel kids toward taking risks early in adolescence, and when things that allow people to think before they act come online. It's like turning on the engine of a car without a skilled driver at the wheel."

At Temple University, Steinberg has been studying another kind of judgment: risk assessment. In an experiment using a driving-simulation game, he studies teens and adults as they decide whether to run a yellow light. Both sets of subjects, he found, make safe choices when playing alone. But in group play, teenagers start to take more risks in the presence of their friends, while those over age 20 don't show much change in their behavior. "With this manipulation," says Steinberg, "we've shown that age differences in decision making and judgment may appear under conditions that are emotionally arousing or have high social impact."


Hey Skinny
Out of curiosity....what position does your DD play ? And what types of different things do you impose on her to be more safe than all the other players on the feild?
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by absdad » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:02 pm

dittoz wrote: I'm sorry - we all know these kids are using high-end bats and if folks don't realize that their DD and DS can get hurt standing 35' or 55' from a hitter, then maybe they need to reconsider a few things in life first.


I don't know that everyone thinks that the batter has a hot bat. I do however, think that they should assume that they all do. And EVERY single kid that steps out on the field, had better know that they can get hurt. Any parent that doesn't have that talk, and obligatory follow up talk, deserves a good beating. I'm not saying to scare the kids, but they should be aware of the possibility of injury. Kids are fearless until they learn their limits.
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by Skarp » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:13 pm

SkinnyFats wrote:Adolescents process risk differently than adults do; their brains are still developing.

No argument there. I'm on record about a million times on here arguing that kids are basically just bad decision generating machines.

But kids DO understand that a certain amount of risk exists. They have to, because they have all been hurt to some degree or another playing the sport. What they probably aren't cognizant of (at least consciously) is the risk of death or truly serious injury. But the question is whether that risk is really significant, and I think the numbers say that it isn't.
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by Joe » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:32 am

Skarp wrote:I'm on record about a million times on here arguing that kids are basically just bad decision generating machines.


Whoa now...and hold the phone! You're way of base here Skarp....cuz DD's #1 and #2 have informed me repeatedly that they have it all figured out. FUTHERMORE, I have no business in their business.

In fact after 2 1/2 years of college and 20 years behind her, #1 comes home on holiday with all kinds of life lessons for the Fam. AND then #2? Puleeze... one more year and she gets her new BMW!!! Ha!!!..LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:
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by Skarp » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:42 pm

Joe wrote:In fact after 2 1/2 years of college and 20 years behind her, #1 comes home on holiday with all kinds of life lessons for the Fam.

Oh my Lord...I bet that's a real treat. Nothing like the secondhand regurgitations of snot-nosed grad student instructors telling you how ass-backwards you've had things all these years. :roll:

The good news is that, in your daughter's eyes, you'll get smarter and smarter as the years pass. Funny how that works.
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by Blind Squirrel » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:38 am

absdad wrote:I don't know that everyone thinks that the batter has a hot bat. I do however, think that they should assume that they all do. And EVERY single kid that steps out on the field, had better know that they can get hurt. Any parent that doesn't have that talk, and obligatory follow up talk, deserves a good beating. I'm not saying to scare the kids, but they should be aware of the possibility of injury. Kids are fearless until they learn their limits.


If a kid doesn't instantly recognize the potential to get hurt when hard objects are being thrown and hit by hard bats, then that kid has absolutely no business being on the field regardless of what anyone might say to them. That is a child whose ability to process information is clearly so poor that they pose a significant risk to other kids if they are even allowed to hold a ball or bat. If a kid needs to be told they could get hurt in this context, then the kid should instead be led away from the field and be given a musical instrument or a pencil with erasers at both ends.

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by Sam » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:53 am

Ask you DD if softball is dangerous? I'm betting they will tell you...No. They certainly recognize that they can get hurt. I don't think they equate getting hurt with getting killed. I dare you to find a kid that thinks they can get killed playing softball. If the bats are continually allowed to remain hot, it is simply a matter of time before the incident on the baseball field happens to one of YOUR DD's. Mine is done.

A broken bone or a cut or even a torn ACL will heal. Internal injuries sometimes don't heal....brain injuries sometimes don't heal....and death just won't heal.

An activity that is fun, but can kill you is something that adults do....not kids.
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by MoeFoes » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:25 pm

Life does not come with warning labels. It's just assumed.

My 1st skate board? I didn't know I could crack my skull till I actually cracked my skull.
Dad just called it boys being boys :D

My 1st Bike? After jumpin curbs and ramps I wish I had a FEMALE Bike. We now know the difference between Male and Female bikes. But when you foot slips off the petal you wish you had the girls.
Dad just said "If bikes were for jumpin they would have springs" :D

My 1st year in baseball? Took a ball in the chest during practice. I leaned the term "Gettin the wind knocked out of you".
Dad just said "Suck it up!!"

My 1st year in football? They never said what happens if you take a helmet in the back. Well you get to pee blood. Scared the crap out of me.
Dad just said "Well you took it like a man". What the hell did that mean? :|

My 1st year in boxing? 1st fight got my ass whooped by a 28 year old man. I was 16. Nobody told me that age means nothing!!!! It's about weight!!! Amature my ass!!!
Dad said "Great job kid you really hung in there". Yeah, for 1 round.

My 1st car? Did you know you could take the air out of the tires and ride the railroad tracks? Nevermind that story and what Dad said.

My 1st job? I worked in a feed store loading hay in the back of flat beds for $80 bucks a week. Paying for the damages at a party my sister had while Dad was out of town. Trucks would pull up and say "I'll take 75 of those 125lb. bales"!!!!!!!!!!!
Dad said "This will make you a man". While my sister sits on her ass and watches!!!

In all of our lives there have been situations that we have been in that have been risky. That's life. There is no sport or job in this world that is without risk. Kids dont know it cause parents don't tell them. If parents tell them then there is no sport. If I said you can drown while swimming they wouldn't swim. If I said you can die while playing on the jungle gym, they wouldn't play on it. You can die sitting in a chair. What I have told my DD's. Is that, when it's their time to go then it's their time to go. That doesn't mean go running on the freeway. But enjoy life!! Be wise that their action may cause a re-action. They play the game the way it should be played. With smiles. :D :D :D

If I woke up everyday living the life I live worrying about the risks that are associated with my job I wouldn't live. I live for the hugs and kisses from my DD's. Not this world, my boss, job, paycheck, but for the ones I love. Just so they can enjoy the things they love. Risks or no risks. They are on this planet to enjoy everything it has to offer. Good or Bad. I pray for good. But I also know Bad is never that far. That's just life.
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by Sparky Guy » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:40 pm

Another analogy to ponder here.

Why aren't auto manufacturers sued after all auto accidents? I'm not an attorney, but this came to mind reading all the responses here.

Purely hypothetical. Dry, sunny, afternoon, summer day.

We have Mr. Jones traveling down the road at the posted 55 mph speed limit in his full sized car that has met all the government safety regulations and passed all the testing. Mr. Jones' car has not been altered in any way from when it left the factory. Ms. Smith is crossing the same road that Mr. Jones is driving on in her similarly sized and tested car is struck by Mr. Jones. Neither driver has deliberately done anything illegal or wrong at the time of the accident. Ms. Smith was tragically killed in an accident.

Ms. Smith's family sued the manufacturer of Mr. Jones' car because it was large enough to cause enough damage to Ms. Smith's car resulting in her death. They also cited it did not have a warning device on the front of it that would have alerted Ms. Smith to it's approach allowing her time to avoid the collision.

We all accept that traveling in an automobile has inherent risks to it. As parents we decide whether we choose to take the risk in exchange for the ease and convenience of riding in car allows us for ourselves and our families.

Without seeing the court documents and going back to the original post I am assuming that neither player was doing anything outside the rules of the game or using any equipment that was not approved by the game's sanctioning body. How can the manufacturer be held liable if the product they sold meets all the safety rules allowed by the sanctioning body? The parents of the injured athlete made the risk assessment by allowing their son to play the sport. More importantly, they let him pitch.
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