Jury Idiocy Comes to Montana

[tcannizzo]

Here are a few questions to ponder:

1. What was the jury pool? How many atheletes versus couch potatoes?

2. What kind of bat did the boy himself swing?

3. If you are 18 and playing Legion ball, thinking about getting to the bigs, you KNOW that your days of aluminum bats are numbered. Why? Because it is common knowledge that if they let aluminum bats in the MLB, all of the stadiums would be obsolete.

4. Can we trust the sanctioning bodies to really know what is safe? I mean, they have really been trying hard to improve safety. And I am not trying to throw them under the bus, but how do these people really know? ASA requires face guards on batting helments and led the charge in dumbing down the technology. If you were around the game in the 90's, you remember titanium bats being outlawed, and then triple-wall bats....and don't forget about the softballs. At one point they were at 750 lbs compression which is actually harder than a golf ball even at Cor 47. Even today at 375 compression, softballs are harder than baseballs which are approx 350 compression.

5. Did this jury just tee up a class-action lawsuit involving every player of every age to go after these demon bat companies for putting players in harm's way?

This is indeed a sad day in the sport.

[SkinnyFats]

This is indeed a sad day in the sport.

I'm not so sure. If this leads to a situation where getting jammed means the ball barely gets to the infielders instead of going clear to the outfield, where hitting a home run means connecting perfectly with a powerful swing, and means pitchers are less likely to get killed, then I don't see anything sad about it.

[Sam]

ATD -- I do not find Sam's post baffling or contradictory at all... let me explain.

Sam has come on here many times warning parents that overuse of pitchers at 12U, 14U can cause repetitive use injuries. Why does he do this? Because many parents and coaches believe (I think wrongly) that the windmill motion used in FP either makes repetitive use injury impossible, or at least a remote risk that shouldn't bother anyone. He wants parents/coaches to reconsider this risk to the pitchers under their influence and control.

Now, Sam is NOW ALSO saying that the increase in bat exit speeds caused by modern bats are can ALSO lead to injury that is not fully considered by parents. Same issue -- there is a risk not fully comprehended by parents/coaches. Especially parents of of F1, F5, F3, in that order.

I see Sam's warnings as being consistent, not contradictory or baffling. In both cases, he observes a risk that he considers underappreciated.

It is baffling. You are conveniently leaving out half of Sam's argument about overuse. The other half and most important, and I agree with Sam on this, is to basically "take care of your kid" in a nutshell. If bats are too fast and too dangerous for your pitching child, get them off the mound and have them play another position or another sport. It is your responsibility as a parent at the end of the day to take care of your kid. A begging coach, league, organization, or bat company shouldn't do it for you. Failing to acknowledge or ignoring the risks or your lack of due diligence, ignorance, stupidity or otherwise is not an excuse. Either the risk is acceptable and you live with the risk and accept the consequences of your choices for your child or you do something about it.

An old chief of police once told me, the best way to not be a victim is to not put yourself in a situation to be a victim. You can guarantee you will never get mugged in a dark alley if you never walk down a dark alley. Since we're talking about life and death here and not simply winning or losing, don't walk down the dark alley if the risk is unacceptable, but having your head in the sand is never an excuse for sound informed judgement, there is too much at stake.

ASA isn't causing overuse injuries, but they are certifying the safety of bats. I chose to put my kid at risk and she took 2 trips to the hopspital for her trouble. She had two surgeries on a compound fracture of her middle finger on her pitching hand and also sustained internal injureis from a Rockettech.She ended up being so gunshy, that she hated to pitch.

So from your point of view, we should keep the bat speeds constant and play the game with pitching machines. That will be excellent for all those kids that couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

[Sam]

No, I said every kids knows they could get hurt. In other words, they know this is a dangerous sport. C'mon, if anyone could predict death...

I'd say the bat manufacturers and the governing bodies have made an effort to reduce speed off the bats in the interest of safety. Isn't there approved bat list? Just curious, what bat does your DD use? What if your DD hits a pitcher and her parents decide to sue you? You knowingly bought her a hot bat. Your dd intentionally used it in a game...

If we're going to sue for everything under the sun, then what happens when little Susie gets a chipped elbow from a pitch? Call an attorney and sue the ball manufacturer? What's the next step, all participants will have to inspect all players equipment, and then sign waivers?

And just so you know, I'm not busting your balls. I'm on the fence on this issue, but would like you to explain your POV more.

My DD had two Rocketechs and an Easton bat...all over $200. Why would I have her hit with one hand behind her back....after all, according to ASA these bats met the safety requirements. I had no idea the bats were dangerous at the time. Someone could sue me all they wanted and they wouldn't win...I based my decision on the governing body for softball. So what is your point?

[Sam]

Here are a few questions to ponder:

1. What was the jury pool? How many atheletes versus couch potatoes? What in the blue hell does that matter?

2. What kind of bat did the boy himself swing? Again, what in the blue hell does that matter?
3. If you are 18 and playing Legion ball, thinking about getting to the bigs, you KNOW that your days of aluminum bats are numbered. Why? Because it is common knowledge that if they let aluminum bats in the MLB, all of the stadiums would be obsolete. This is just a stupid statement. If you are 18 and playing Legion ball, you likely haven't been drafted and probably aren't going to get drafted.

4. Can we trust the sanctioning bodies to really know what is safe? I mean, they have really been trying hard to improve safety. And I am not trying to throw them under the bus, but how do these people really know? ASA requires face guards on batting helments and led the charge in dumbing down the technology. If you were around the game in the 90's, you remember titanium bats being outlawed, and then triple-wall bats....and don't forget about the softballs. At one point they were at 750 lbs compression which is actually harder than a golf ball even at Cor 47. Even today at 375 compression, softballs are harder than baseballs which are approx 350 compression. Who would know better than the sanctioning body...after all....they are the....sanctioning body.

5. Did this jury just tee up a class-action lawsuit involving every player of every age to go after these demon bat companies for putting players in harm's way? This jury decided a case based on one irrefutable fact....bat companies don't give a crap about safety or the damage their bats can cause to players.

This is indeed a sad day in the sport.

Any more questions?

[Sam]

ASA could mandate the use of wood bats.

MLB does it....because they know that a composite or metal bat in the hands of a professional hitter can be and would be a lethal weapon.

Teach your kids to hit...then it won't matter what bat they use.

[Blind Squirrel]

What is the specific criteria that should be used to assess how safe a bat is when used in girls FP? I suspect that the more specific one tries to be, the harder it gets. The less precise, the more subjective the assessment becomes which makes it literally impossible for any sanctioning body or manufacturer to be without fault unless you lay the responsibility on the parent's doorstep. Which, BTW is not the basis for my opinions.

John

[DunninLA]

Blind -- it would be a wood performance standard. 88 mph, 4 inch sweet spot.

[MTR]

I don't buy that.

Profit driven? Sort of the idea of being in business, isn't it? There are a lot of things many different companies do that are not NECESSARY, but they do it anyway if it will positively affect their profit margin. One of the most obvious involves what we are all doing right now, using software that the company (Microsoft, Apple or any other) selling it already has the next generation already coming out of it's beta mode.

How outdated software applications is analogous to products known to injure people is a mystery to me.

Then maybe you should find someone with a 3rd grade level of reading comprehension to place that comment within the context of which it was made.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

Yeah, I've read this and many other "legal" accounts and opinions and they pretty much say the same thing. And I really don't give a damn how hot the coffee was (if you could read what people actually type, you would have seen I agree it was and still is too hot), if you are stupid enough to place it between your legs while attempting to open it, you do not deserve sympathy or excessive amount of awarded money.

Back to the bat issues.

I find it amazing how many people are attempting to justify so many angles of this with total BS.

There is no evidence the bat was altered, but I don't know to what extent how far baseball takes their bat testing and to what levels they are checked. If anything like NCAA, there is none, but the word of the manufacturer.

Any parent who does not strive understand the dangers of any in which their child is participating, shouldn't allow their child to play. There is no such thing as 100% safe whether someone sleeping, standing, sitting, walking down the street or driving down Pike's Peak at 120 mph with no brakes.

Anyone who thinks that you can play a game of softball or baseball without any risk doesn't know the game. When they permit their children to participate, they must be considered to have done due diligence.

People want to blame the associations and the equipment, but are often the first to try to find the "hottest" bat no matter the cost so THEY can have an edge on the field. Yes, the game is loaded with hypocrites who will be the first to cheat, first to make excuses and the first to blame anyone else for their misfortune.

Remember, we are discussing an aluminum bat, not composite. The jury found that the bat was not defective. And there is no evidence that the kid would not have been killed if the batter was swinging wood.

BTW, remember Mike Coolbaugh? That bat was wood and he still died.

[MoeFoes]

Here is my take on the subjects.

1. Composite bats- Kids have'em Wife hates'em. Wife believe true hitters can hit with any bat. Wife played ball in the 80's and early 90's college ball. Back when girls used $15 baseball gloves and grabbed any bat as they walked to the plate.

2. Masks- When DD's were taking pitching lessons I checked them out on line. Wife walks over with all of her infinate wisdom and says something that would blow your mind "Wouldn't it be cheaper to teach the girls to snag a comebacker". WOW build glove and response time. What an idea!!

3. Wood Bats- I would love to see them. It would really change the game. And I honestly believe the kids would adjust. No more shaved, rolled, or altered bats.

4. Gloves- Are they even rated to catch balls at that speed. DD took a shot at 3rd last year after coach told her to play the bunt. Ball came torward her thoat. Shot was hit so hard that it knocked her on her back. Coaches and parents stood up. I was scare until DD showed the ball and got up. Thank god for those reaction drills. But Web lace did break.

5. The parents of the kid. I am truelly sorry for their loss. Their kid loved the game as it was. No need to change it. He played it for many years and I'm sure he's caught a few comebackers along the way. This was the 1 he missed. With this law suit the parents have tainted the game he loved as well as his memory. He will now be remembered for this law suit instead of the man he had become. Accidents happen. Not just in this game but in life. The odds of being hit by a car are actually less.

6.Risk- If you are scared for your DD to get hurt then get her a large plastic bubble. Put warning labels on everything insight!! Because it can all kill her. I let my kids live life as I did. All my DD's ride bikes (without helmets), skateboards (without helmets), swim, fish (tie their own hooks), climb trees, jump fence's, drink from the hose, Hike, and they enjoy it. I used to let my Oldest DD skateboard between games at friendlies till her coach had a fit. Middle DD climbed a 80ft tree when we went camping a week before a tourney. And she was doing front flips off a diving board the day before the tourney.

Let your kids live life. Every small detail, every little aspect means alot. Life is bigger than us all combined. Is this a sad story about a young man's death, or is it a great story about how a young man lived. If your with the parents then sue everyone. Pitching coach, Glove company, uniform provider, coach, bat company, hitter, the world!!! I would rather sit back and remember the young man that I called my son as the man he was..................