14U Pitching Speeds Please Help!

[Martin]

I'd be interested in your observations. It is my observation (and one I have heard from others) that female pitchers come closer to reaching their "top end" in speed at an earlier age than male pitchers. Thus, it is not unusual for high school pitchers to be throwing at speeds comparable to Olympic pitchers (perhaps a tick slower). The main difference is the pitchers at the higher level get much more movement on their ball and have command of more types of pitches.

Perhaps our humble radar gun is off, but we usually looked for a pitcher who threw in the upper 50's (at the 14U level) and we usually found one.

[Bill_B]

I'm gonna get my answer at Fresno Force though.. I've always ignored the many people with the speed guns. I'm gonna find out if these girls pitch this fast. If its true, I'll be very impressed. If this speed for that level is not happening at that tournament, its not happening anywhere. I dont get many opportunities to work top level ball at that age level to find out for sure, so I'll take this opportunity to wander around to the speed guns when on break.

One should take radar gun readings with a grain of salt. Some guns are a little late in picking the ball up and will read a little slower than those that get the ball right out of the hand. There's also the matter of cosine error. Some folks measure speed with the radar gun off to the side. An angle can be measured between a line that goes along the path of the ball and a line that goes from release point to the location of the gun. To get corrected speed one must divide by the cosine of that angle.

When I measure speed I sit on the bucket, catch the ball with one hand, and hold the gun with my throwing hand. With a good quality gun pointed directly at the pitcher along the path of the ball I can get consistent measurements.

[DonnieS]

The best way to measure speed and movement for a pitcher is wins and losses, not radar guns.

[americanfreedom]

The best way to measure speed and movement for a pitcher is wins and losses, not radar guns.

The best way to measure speed and movement (ie., quality of a pitcher) is WHIP and K/BB. I also like to look at ground ball to fly ball ratio and slugging percentage against. ERA is a also useful. One of the last things I look at wins and losses. All a pitcher can control is pitch location and keeping the ball off the center field wall. With most high-level pitchers, wins and losses are largely the responsibily of her defense and offense.

[DonnieS]

>> All a pitcher can control is pitch location and keeping the ball off the center field wall. <<

Is that all? Just the same, I'll stick to wins and losses.

[Martin]

Winning is the object of the game, but the notion that a pitcher "earns a win" is quaint at best. The pitcher can be solely blamed (or credited) for only three things: strikeouts, walks and HRs allowed. These stats measure her ability against the batter with no other factors present. This is why K/BB ratios are important in evaluating a pitcher. Ground ball to fly ball ratios are also helpful, as the fielders don't factor into that analysis either.

Once the batter puts the ball in play, the pitcher's teammates have an influence on the outcome. Still, assuming the teammates are not incredibly gifted or weak, the defensive stats tend to average out over time. Thus, WHIP and ERA are helpful tools.

The Won/Loss category is probably the least statistically-relevant stat that is commonly used to evaluate pitchers, and for obvious reasons. It is greatly dependent on the number of runs scored by a pitcher's team, and a team's offensive production really shouldn't have anything to do with an evaluation of it's pitcher.

No doubt about it, though. Wins sure are nice!

[americanfreedom]

And the legend that is Bill James officially has been introduced to the world of Heybucket.com. I have marked this landmark day on my calender.

[DonnieS]

>> This is why K/BB ratios are important <<

The stat I really care about is walks - but I keep track of Hits + BB / AtBats .

>> the notion that a pitcher "earns a win" is quaint at best <<

Exactly - it takes the whole team.

[Nzane]

We have been facing alot of hard throwers lately. We've been hitting them good. Well, today in Vegas, we got beat in ITB by the IE Desperados. Their pitcher MAY have hit 42mph. We could not hit the ball against her if our life depended on it(our TOURNAMENT life did, lol). We did not do a good job of adjusting to her spreed, or lack of. She pitched a great game. Goes to show you, speed is not everything.........

[DDsNbr1Fan]

>> This is why K/BB ratios are important <<

>The stat I really care about is walks - but I keep track of Hits + BB / AtBats <

>> the notion that a pitcher "earns a win" is quaint at best <<

>Exactly - it takes the whole team.<

I agree with all above, although I have seen a few inexperienced pitch callers that have effectively put the pitcher's stats in the BB crapper. This would include coaches and catchers. If the pitcher is not allowed to shake off a pitch and must hit her spots according to what is called, you would have to consider the BB stats with a grain of salt as well.

Also in regards to pitching speed...I believe and based on what I have read on this discussion board that there are a lot of radar guns in need of adjustments.

12u- speed range- 45-51 as an average
14u- speed range- 51-57 as an average
Of course there will be a few outstanding exceptions to this...

On a last note, as a coach I will always favor movement over speed in my pitchers.