Single Payer Healthcare?

[Skarp]

Okay ... you guys are right ... everyone who gets help from the government abuses the services ... the health care & insurance industry are just fine and they should be able to charge whatever they want ... the system that is in place works fine ... the economy was great ( until Obama was voted in ) ...
Skarp ..."Grocery stores aren't forced to sell most of their goods at a loss." ... Are you saying $10 tylenols that you never were offered or received is ok? Billing people for services that they never received is OK ? How about if your yard guy billed you for pruning your shrubs when he didn't do it just because the Doctor down the street didn't pay ... HFS! ... take off your necklace ...
Anon ... nothing is free ... everything is paid for some how, some way ... I am not an advocate of marching every "freeloader" through the doctors office either ... but if you think the current system is working you are far removed from reality ...
Since you fellows dis-like my anecdotes ... here is another one ... my middle DD had not been to the doctor for over 2 years ... there was a $65 surcharge to " update her file " ... so presumably, if she was there 600 days ago they would not have had to update her file ?

The abusive practices you reference have nothing to do with the system per se. If you want to police corrupt billing practices, by all means...I'll bring the suit for you, and we'll both get rich. But laying the blame for that on the free market (which doesn't even really exist in the healthcare arena, truth be told) is an epic stretch. You want corruption, try socialism on for size!

Btw, "sphincter for a necklace" was f'ing strong.

[anonlooker]

Okay ... you guys are right ... everyone who gets help from the government abuses the services ... the health care & insurance industry are just fine and they should be able to charge whatever they want ... the system that is in place works fine ... the economy was great ( until Obama was voted in ) ...
Skarp ..."Grocery stores aren't forced to sell most of their goods at a loss." ... Are you saying $10 tylenols that you never were offered or received is ok? Billing people for services that they never received is OK ? How about if your yard guy billed you for pruning your shrubs when he didn't do it just because the Doctor down the street didn't pay ... HFS! ... take off your necklace ...
Anon ... nothing is free ... everything is paid for some how, some way ... I am not an advocate of marching every [b]"freeloader" through the doctors office either ... but if you think the current system is working you are far removed from reality ...
Since you fellows dis-like my anecdotes ... here is another one ... my middle DD had not been to the doctor for over 2 years ... there was a $65 surcharge to " update her file " ... so presumably, if she was there 600 days ago they would not have had to update her file [/b]?

G'wo, I loved your anecdote. It illustrated my "rampant abuse" point perfectly! It's pathetic that a woman on welfare is getting $60 nail jobs, even moreso because it's probably the only kind of job she'll ever get.... she has no incentive to do otherwise because we are taking care of everything for her.

As to the $65 fee to update DD's file, like you said, nothing is free... not even staying healthy!

btw, I never said everyone abuses the services... but I'll add that those who do (and there are many) are in fact taking away from those with legitimate claims. And that should be addressed before any grand schemes to throw still more tax payer dollars at the problem are enacted.

[Joe]

GIMNEPIWO,

I agree with your reasoning but you and I are fighting against an illogical thinking person (actually evil but since I don't know him personally, maybe he is just stupid and not evil). He cares only of himself and what he can get from others. He will have to answer to a much higher power than you or me, one day. People like Skarp were/are indoctrinated by the right wing propaganda machine that exists in this country. While watching C-Span today at lunch, (town hall meeting on healthcare with Barney Frank from Mass.) I came to realize that there are just a sh*t load of stupid people in this country. Their ignorance and lack of humanity are troublesome. However, we really need to just ignore them.

We'll never let you ignore us because we have every intention of getting in your face when the opportunity arises. And yes, oh yes, we're the stupid people...the ones dropping our pants in the oval office for the 20 something snowflake...and we didn't even clean up after ourselves. Barney from Mass.? Wasn't it Barney's Frank that was chasing trouser in the Capital building a few years ago. Now this guy, Barney's Frank...he's a fine upstanding gentleman...you know like the one I want my daughter to look up to. A real smart guy fo sho'.

Propaganda machine? Hmmm...Is that like the Chicago machine? Where everything is on the up and up, transparent, fair and honest? Or how about the Reid machine? The one that says, "the war is lost"...while my relatives are still fighting the war!!! ARE YOU F#CKING KIDDING ME?!!? And let us not forget the smartest of them all....Nancy Pelosi. The lady is the scariest of them all, and of course an integral part of the right-wing proganda machine. I mean, come on man...we can't buy better advertising. This country, 70% conservative, is just now opening their eyes to these fools and surely all will be NFL...Not For Long!

GMNIwhatever,

As a health care provider, I appreciate your efforts to manage my wages. I mean after all, the millions who choose to drive their new 'cash for clunker' clunker and bypass their responsibily to manage their lives...that just might include purchasing their own health insurance. Or never mind the tens of millions that eat themselves to death and then cry about some God-given right for me to pay for their healthcare.

I think it's only fair that we should start setting the prices at all the nurseries so that we can all plant, plant and plant...for global warming.

BTW...insurance companies reimburse us within 30 days. Get you facts straight. And yes, there are crooks in the healthcare business... and the legal business, the banking business, the nursery business, some at NYU and Columbia. They're everywhere and we have a legal system to deal with them.

Illogical and stupid from Texas...?

I like it!

[GIMNEPIWO]

Joe... "Get you facts straight." ... I did not say that you "As a health care provider," did not get paid on a timely basis ... I said that my experience with them as a vendor or contractor was that they did not pay their bills on a timely basis and, in my experience, were blatant liars about it ... Skarp ... do you have your VA Bar ?

Anon .. "As to the $65 fee to update DD's file, like you said, nothing is free... not even staying healthy!"
That was just fu*kin wrong ... and if Dr B. knew about it, he would have had a cow ... ( good country doctor ) ... If you can talk to him directly you actually feel like you've seen someone who gives a sh*t ... but the fat as* controlers at the desk form a roadblock .. LMAOWIOAB! ... hhhmmm? come to think of it ... this guy went to college for free by agreeing to set up a practice in an underserved area ... well, at least he doesn't have $65 nails

[Joe]

Joe... "Get you facts straight." ... I did not say that you "As a health care provider," did not get paid on a timely basis ... I said that my experience with them as a vendor or contractor was that they did not pay their bills on a timely basis and, in my experience, were blatant liars about it ...

next in line to worst paying customers are insurance comapnies

Oh sorry, I didn't read all that extra BS you've decided to add to your quote above. My mind-reading is off a little tonight. Illogical and stupid I guess...

[GIMNEPIWO]

Joe... "Get you facts straight." ... I did not say that you "As a health care provider," did not get paid on a timely basis ... I said that my experience with them as a vendor or contractor was that they did not pay their bills on a timely basis and, in my experience, were blatant liars about it ...

next in line to worst paying customers are insurance comapnies

Oh sorry, I didn't read all that extra BS you've decided to add to your quote above. My mind-reading is off a little tonight. Illogical and stupid I guess...

No worries Joe ... I was watching the Mets lose and taking trips to the cooler had to edit a few times

[help294]

Hey Skarp, thanks for responding and I see your point. The reason I lean toward single payer is because the fear of the gap. What I mean by gap is... well, let's talk about the woman with the $60 nails. If she has food stamps I'll bet she is on medicaid as well. My concern is not her, it's the woman who is shopping for groceries in that same store and has no fingernails because she works her finger to the bone. She can't quailify for medicaid because she has a JOB. Not the best job, but a job. She is probably single and has a child. Maybe she is working fulltime and going to college to better herself. Then, child gets sick, say ear infections. Child needs tubes in his/her ears. She can't take child to a specialist because she doesn't have medical insurance or medicaid. Doctors tend to give you the run around when you don't have insurance. Child gets so sick she is in the emergency room, child has permanently lost partial hearing in both ears. (By the way, we the insured, are paying the bill in the end.) Then, later when child gets in school it costs us even more due to special education programs the child may need. It's kind of a trickle affect So looking back maybe she shouldn't have had a JOB and then her child would have qualified for medicaid and on top of that she could have had $60 nails as well. This woman was "in the gap" and was trying to do the right thing. I want a program that helps her. What is the solution? I just don't know. What about a hybrid of government and private?

PS If you don't make fun of my grammer can you overlook my spelling too?
PSS I think that France was #1 on healthcare list. Surely we can beat the french.

[Joe]

I want a program that helps her. What is the solution?

The U.S. Department of Sterilization

[Skarp]

Hey Skarp, thanks for responding and I see your point. The reason I lean toward single payer is because the fear of the gap. What I mean by gap is... well, let's talk about the woman with the $60 nails. If she has food stamps I'll bet she is on medicaid as well. My concern is not her, it's the woman who is shopping for groceries in that same store and has no fingernails because she works her finger to the bone. She can't quailify for medicaid because she has a JOB. Not the best job, but a job. She is probably single and has a child. Maybe she is working fulltime and going to college to better herself. Then, child gets sick, say ear infections. Child needs tubes in his/her ears. She can't take child to a specialist because she doesn't have medical insurance or medicaid. Doctors tend to give you the run around when you don't have insurance. Child gets so sick she is in the emergency room, child has permanently lost partial hearing in both ears. (By the way, we the insured, are paying the bill in the end.) Then, later when child gets in school it costs us even more due to special education programs the child may need. It's kind of a trickle affect So looking back maybe she shouldn't have had a JOB and then her child would have qualified for medicaid and on top of that she could have had $60 nails as well. This woman was "in the gap" and was trying to do the right thing. I want a program that helps her. What is the solution? I just don't know. What about a hybrid of government and private?

PS If you don't make fun of my grammer can you overlook my spelling too?
PSS I think that France was #1 on healthcare list. Surely we can beat the french.

The only thing the French are best at is smug self-importance.

Here's the problem. The more you expand "free" healthcare (or housing, food, etc.), the more you incentivize conduct that allows people to qualify. I know I wouldn't continue to work if I could enjoy the same basic lifestyle sitting on my ass. And wherever you draw the line, there will always be some category of people just on the other side of it who represent the new "gap." Meanwhile the expanding costs get pushed onto an every shrinking segment of society. So for people who pay, including the new "gappers," costs will spiral upward.

The perfect is the enemy of the good, a fact invariably lost on liberal do-gooders. Perfection is not achievable. So while a free market system is far from perfect, it is the best way of getting high-quality care for the lowest possible prices. Free market competition is always the best answer. Not perfect, just best. Liberals would tear it down in pursuit of the unattainable.

If our healthcare system wasn't strained to the breaking point by free-riders overutilizing its services, your gap lady would probably be able to afford a decent insurance policy. Because, as I've said before, reduced demand leads to reduced prices. Inexorably.

Fact is though, many people who could afford insurance choose to forego it because it would mean giving up many other, objectively less important things. How much is cable television? Starbucks every morning and afternoon? Driving rather than riding the bus? Getting fast food rather than packing a lunch? People tend to value present time over future time, and thus prioritize present pleasures over future benefits...especially speculative ones. So choosing not to insure is not surprising. Hell, I would do the same, and would probably only insure against catastrophic events (relatively cheap to do). I hardly ever go to the doctor, and haven't my entire life. Usually it is unnecessary.

[weekend4trvl]

Healthcare providers...When my dad was 70 he needed a procedure done on eyes (cataract surgery). He got one eye done and has to wait 4 months for the other. During that 4 months he can't play golf and doesn't feel comfortable diving...his depth perception is screwed up. Go to have the other eye done and ask the doctor why the 4 month wait. Doc says because of your age. The bean counters calced that there is a 960 to 1 chance that you will drop dead within the 4 months and they won't have to pay for the other eye. Besides most retirees will pony up the cash rather than wait the 4 months..only about a grand per eye 10 years ago. That's the only medical procedure he has ever had...paid into the system for 50 years and still gets the same FU treatment that everyone else gets. Multiply that experience by a few hundred million and you have your US health care system...go to a free market system and 75% of the industry would vanish within a few years.

The system is broken and wholly corrupt...scrap it and start over...don't be afraid it won't hurt much.