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Single Payer Healthcare?

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by Skarp » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:14 pm

carolinafan wrote:GIMNEPIWO,

I agree with your reasoning but you and I are fighting against an illogical thinking person (actually evil but since I don't know him personally, maybe he is just stupid and not evil). He cares only of himself and what he can get from others. He will have to answer to a much higher power than you or me, one day. People like Skarp were/are indoctrinated by the right wing propaganda machine that exists in this country. While watching C-Span today at lunch, (town hall meeting on healthcare with Barney Frank from Mass.) I came to realize that there are just a sh*t load of stupid people in this country. Their ignorance and lack of humanity are troublesome. However, we really need to just ignore them.

Says the guy who wants to drag me behind his car. :lol:

I care only for myself and what I can get from others? Pardon me, nimblenuts, but you're the one advocating forcing other people to pay for what you want. Not me.

Nice grammar, by the way.
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by carolinafan » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:22 pm

Are you for real??? Our healthcare should be supply and demand driven? "Sorry little Jimmy, but you cannot get your DPT shot today because you "really" don't need it THAT badly now, do you"? I don't know about the rest of you, but I HATE going to the doctor and will do everything possible to stay out of a hospital. I have excellent health care but cringe when I have to see a doctor. I cannot fathom anyone without health care insurance lining up to go whenever they get a cough!

As far as my grammar goes, short bus boy, I have forgotten more than you will ever know.

And if you recall, I decided to suffocate you rather than drag you.....as per your suggestion!
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by Skarp » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:34 pm

carolinafan wrote:Are you for real??? Our healthcare should be supply and demand driven? "Sorry little Jimmy, but you cannot get your DPT shot today because you "really" don't need it THAT badly now, do you"? I don't know about the rest of you, but I HATE going to the doctor and will do everything possible to stay out of a hospital. I have excellent health care but cringe when I have to see a doctor. I cannot fathom anyone without health care insurance lining up to go whenever they get a cough!

As far as my grammar goes, short bus boy, I have forgotten more than you will ever know.

And if you recall, I decided to suffocate you rather than drag you.....as per your suggestion!

Ummm...no...that's how a government-run system operates. Under a free market system, little Jimmy gets whatever little Jimmy can pay for, or has insured against. Your ignorance is really quite profound.

And you clearly have forgotten a lot, because your grammar and word usage are abysmal. Seriously. NYU? Columbia?? I must laugh now. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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by anonlooker » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:45 pm

carolinafan wrote:Are you for real??? Our healthcare should be supply and demand driven? "Sorry little Jimmy, but you cannot get your DPT shot today because you "really" don't need it THAT badly now, do you"? I don't know about the rest of you, but I HATE going to the doctor and will do everything possible to stay out of a hospital. I have excellent health care but cringe when I have to see a doctor. I cannot fathom anyone without health care insurance lining up to go whenever they get a cough!

As far as my grammar goes, short bus boy, I have forgotten more than you will ever know.

And if you recall, I decided to suffocate you rather than drag you.....as per your suggestion!


Apparently so! :lol:

So in this world in which everyone is entitled to free "everything", how does "everything" get paid for? Because eventually the freeloaders will vastly outnumber those of us who work, and then where are we?

And if you don't think people over use free medical care, try walking through Van Nuys, CA some day, where folks are having children at an almost impossible rate... would they be doing the same if they had to actually pay for the doctors, hospital stay, food and clothing, etc etc? Not likely. Nor is it likely they will change their ways as long as you and I are paying their way.

As taxes continue to escalate to pay for these wasteful entitlement programs, at what point will you say "Whoa! hold on a minute!" Will you be willing to get a second job to continue supporting these entitlement programs, while struggling to raise your own family and pay your mortgage? What will it take, a 70% tax rate? 90%? Everyone has a limit.
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by help294 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:19 pm

If our healthcare in this country is so great why are we ranked lowest compared to all the other industrialized nations? Maybe, just maybe, they have it closer to right then we do. Compared to other industrialized nations we have the highest infant mortality rate. It can't be the best if everyone does not have access to it. I know someone who has MS. Husband lost his job from recession, along with the health insurance, now she doesn't know what she should do, pay for her groceries or pay for her shot she needs monthly. Her shots cost $1000 a month. This is a young woman in her early 40's with 3 kids to raise. She can continue to have close to a normal life, but has to have medication. Medicaid can only help after they have lost everything. This is wrong. Something has to be done. Healthcare is a right not a privilege.

PS I do have a degree, but if you can't tell, not in english.
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by GIMNEPIWO » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:26 pm

Carolina ... Skarp is far from stupid ... he may, however, be able to see evil from his office window ... :lol: ...

Skarp and Anon ... you are, of course, dragging up extremes that I'm sure there are plenty of ... I was behind a woman in the grocery store yesterday using food stamps who had $60 finger nails ... I did not like it, nor would many people ... but if the two of you, and many others think, that the only people without healthcare are " freeloaders " ... then you're wearing your sphincter as a necklace ...
... And Skarp ... the $10 Tylenols ... that was off a hospital bill from 1991 which I disputed ... we were billed for many of those even though none were given or taken ... as well as several other services ... I was told that " those items are always put on the bill in case we would have needed them ".. don't hand me the crap about "They set ridiculous prices to overcome the deficit" because in any other business that would be theft by deception ( the grocery store figures shrinkage into overhead, but they don't charge you for groceries that you don't buy )... From the other side of the coin ... have you ever done work for a Doctor or Hospital ? ... My experience with Doctors is that they always feel that they are getting over charged ( guilt complex- like the partner who accuses you of cheating because she is doing the wild thing with the Fuller Brush Man ) and that Hospitals pay their bills an average of 150 days after they are received ... and not so ironically, next in line to worst paying customers are insurance comapnies and then banks ... Lawyers can be tight but usually pay their bills pretty good ... I have yet to figure that out :lol:
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by anonlooker » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:47 pm

GIMNEPIWO wrote:Carolina ... Skarp is far from stupid ... he may, however, be able to see evil from his office window ... :lol: ...

Skarp and Anon ... you are, of course, dragging up extremes that I'm sure there are plenty of ... I was behind a woman in the grocery store yesterday using food stamps who had $60 finger nails ... I did not like it, nor would many people ... but if the two of you, and many others think, that the only people without healthcare are " freeloaders " ... then you're wearing your sphincter as a necklace ...
... And Skarp ... the $10 Tylenols ... that was off a hospital bill from 1991 which I disputed ... we were billed for many of those even though none were given or taken ... as well as several other services ... I was told that " those items are always put on the bill in case we would have needed them ".. don't hand me the crap about "They set ridiculous prices to overcome the deficit" because in any other business that would be theft by deception ( the grocery store figures shrinkage into overhead, but they don't charge you for groceries that you don't buy )... From the other side of the coin ... have you ever done work for a Doctor or Hospital ? ... My experience with Doctors is that they always feel that they are getting over charged ( guilt complex- like the partner who accuses you of cheating because she is doing the wild thing with the Fuller Brush Man ) and that Hospitals pay their bills an average of 150 days after they are received ... and not so ironically, next in line to worst paying customers are insurance comapnies and then banks ... Lawyers can be tight but usually pay their bills pretty good ... I have yet to figure that out :lol:


I understand your point there, but apparently you also understand mine, by sharing your anecdote about the woman with the fingernails. The only way these folks can afford $60 finger nails, shiny new pick-up trucks and plasma televisions is by abusing the entitlement programs that are, or rather should be, designed to help those otherwise responsible citizens who have fallen on hard times.

The idea that free health care should be available to anyone actually entices people to live their lives recklessly and without personal responsibility. You don't like paying for the woman's $60 nails, and neither do I. But that's what we are both doing, and it's only getting worse.
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by Skarp » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:07 pm

GIMNEPIWO wrote:Carolina ... Skarp is far from stupid ... he may, however, be able to see evil from his office window ... :lol: ...

Skarp and Anon ... you are, of course, dragging up extremes that I'm sure there are plenty of ... I was behind a woman in the grocery store yesterday using food stamps who had $60 finger nails ... I did not like it, nor would many people ... but if the two of you, and many others think, that the only people without healthcare are " freeloaders " ... then you're wearing your sphincter as a necklace ...
... And Skarp ... the $10 Tylenols ... that was off a hospital bill from 1991 which I disputed ... we were billed for many of those even though none were given or taken ... as well as several other services ... I was told that " those items are always put on the bill in case we would have needed them ".. don't hand me the crap about "They set ridiculous prices to overcome the deficit" because in any other business that would be theft by deception ( the grocery store figures shrinkage into overhead, but they don't charge you for groceries that you don't buy )... From the other side of the coin ... have you ever done work for a Doctor or Hospital ? ... My experience with Doctors is that they always feel that they are getting over charged ( guilt complex- like the partner who accuses you of cheating because she is doing the wild thing with the Fuller Brush Man ) and that Hospitals pay their bills an average of 150 days after they are received ... and not so ironically, next in line to worst paying customers are insurance comapnies and then banks ... Lawyers can be tight but usually pay their bills pretty good ... I have yet to figure that out :lol:

Grocery stores aren't forced to sell most of their goods at a loss. And isn't "charging people for what they don't buy" precisely what you are advocating for our healthcare system?

And no, I can't see evil from my office window. I see a bunch of other people trying to make their way in the world, facing their own problems, expenses, personal demons, etc. People who work their asses off for what they have, a great many of whom regret the choices that led them to their places in life.

Which brings me to your propensity to erroneously categorize people versus business as "us vs. them." Who is it that you think owns insurance companies, healthcare companies, etc.? For the most part it's pension funds, mutual funds, and private, work-a-day investors. Average people. Take the profit out of those businesses, and the investment in them dries up immediately. Then what do you have?
Last edited by Skarp on Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Skarp » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:43 pm

help294 wrote:If our healthcare in this country is so great why are we ranked lowest compared to all the other industrialized nations? Maybe, just maybe, they have it closer to right then we do. Compared to other industrialized nations we have the highest infant mortality rate. It can't be the best if everyone does not have access to it. I know someone who has MS. Husband lost his job from recession, along with the health insurance, now she doesn't know what she should do, pay for her groceries or pay for her shot she needs monthly. Her shots cost $1000 a month. This is a young woman in her early 40's with 3 kids to raise. She can continue to have close to a normal life, but has to have medication. Medicaid can only help after they have lost everything. This is wrong. Something has to be done. Healthcare is a right not a privilege.

PS I do have a degree, but if you can't tell, not in english.

No worries Help...your prose reads like Chaucer compared to our resident Ivy Leaguer.

Could you please define the parameters of the "right" you identify? What exactly is it that people are entitled to? And since rights are necessarily attached to corresponding obligations, who is it that is obligated, on your view, to provide these "rights" to everyone?

With respect to world rankings, be sure to look at the factors being measured in their creation. Here's what the WHO looks at:

How does a society know when a health care system is "good"? The World Health Organization (WHO) released a report in 2000, in which it outlined three goals for a "good" health care system:
--It should make the health status of the entire population as good as possible across the whole country.
--It should respond to people's expectations of respectful treatment and client orientation by the health care providers.
--It should ensure financial protection for everyone, with costs distributed according to one's ability to pay (WHO, 2000).


In short, if it ain't socialized, it's bad. The rankings are agenda-driven. I prefer to watch how people vote when their own lives and health are on the line. Under those circumstances, it's one-way traffic from those supposedly vaunted healthcare regimes to the U.S. to obtain the needed care.

Infant mortality numbers are often cited as a dispositive indicator of health care quality. They are not, as they fail to factor in causes of death and lifestyle variations. For instance, more people per capita drive in the U.S. than in any other country, and auto accidents have an annoying tendency to kill people...especially infants. Lack of cultural uniformity in child-rearing practices, particularly among less educated immigrant populations, can also lead to more health crises than are found in other, more homogeneous developed countries. These factors skew the numbers and have nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of health care provided.
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by GIMNEPIWO » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:56 pm

Okay ... you guys are right ... everyone who gets help from the government abuses the services ... the health care & insurance industry are just fine and they should be able to charge whatever they want ... the system that is in place works fine ... the economy was great ( until Obama was voted in ) ...
Skarp ..."Grocery stores aren't forced to sell most of their goods at a loss." ... :lol: Are you saying $10 tylenols that you never were offered or received is ok? Billing people for services that they never received is OK ? How about if your yard guy billed you for pruning your shrubs when he didn't do it just because the Doctor down the street didn't pay ... HFS! ... take off your necklace ...
Anon ... nothing is free ... everything is paid for some how, some way ... I am not an advocate of marching every "freeloader" through the doctors office either ... but if you think the current system is working you are far removed from reality ...
Since you fellows dis-like my anecdotes ... here is another one ... my middle DD had not been to the doctor for over 2 years ... there was a $65 surcharge to " update her file " ... so presumably, if she was there 600 days ago they would not have had to update her file ?
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