Information about Premier Fastpitch Girls Softball

[wadeintothem]

Starting 15 they play gold.. you know it. There is NO credible 16 or 18a y/o division in so cal. They dont even compete.

Please tell me how that ruins my credibility. THis opens more slots for that, and thats the goal.

You deny that?

It also lowers the bar for those able to play. A 15 y/o may not play as well vs a 18G college pitcher. so they want them gone.

THat is why there are those with the opinion that the true goal is to allow so cal to overwhelm the gold division with more teams.

18G is NOT a show case division for 15 y/os. It is a competitive division in ASA Championship ball. If your goal is showcase, Gary just might have the best tourney for you.

[Iluvblue]

So explain the argument to me why college coaches dont want any college players at gold nationals.

Now use that SAMR argument on those that are already signed and verballed.
Why have them play? College coaches dont need to see them either, they have alreqady committed.
Whats the difference between the two?

[PDad]

Starting 15 they play gold.. you know it.

Please tell me how that ruins my credibility.

Maybe it's because you said 14's...

THis opens more slots for that, and thats the goal.

You deny that?

It also lowers the bar for those able to play. A 15 y/o may not play as well vs a 18G college pitcher. so they want them gone.

THat is why there are those with the opinion that the true goal is to allow so cal to overwhelm the gold division with more teams.

Seems like SoCal's Gold Classification limit of 50 teams raises the bar for SoCal players. SoCal organizations don't have 5-6 'gold' teams like we read about in Texas...

[NuNu's Dad]

Starting 15 they play gold.. you know it. There is NO credible 16 or 18a y/o division in so cal. They dont even compete.

Please tell me how that ruins my credibility. THis opens more slots for that, and thats the goal.

You deny that?

It also lowers the bar for those able to play. A 15 y/o may not play as well vs a 18G college pitcher. so they want them gone.

Hmmm. Where to begin?

1. "Starting 15 they play gold.. you know it."
False. Most kids in SoCal play 16U or 18U. Only the elite are able to play on an established Gold team of any repute. Since there are only 114 registered Gold teams in Region 14 including NorCal and Nev, and 42 and 45 teams in SoCal from 16U & 18U, respectively, there is no way your assertion could be true.

2. "There is NO credible 16 or 18a y/o division in so cal. They dont even compete."
False. There are some reasonably successful 16U or 18U teams. From the ASA website, just in the 18U division, the 3rd, a 9th, a 13th, and a 17th place finishers out of 139 teams were from SoCal. I believe that alone would negate your argument about "No credible...". That would also certainly meet the criteria for competing. In addition in 16U a 5th, a 7th, a 9th, a 13th and a 17th place finisher would also negate that argument. These are essentially the kids not quite good enough to play on a Gold team.

3. "It also lowers the bar for those able to play. A 15 y/o may not play as well vs a 18G college pitcher. so they want them gone"
False. The younger pitchers did not lower the bar, and the college pitchers did not raise the bar. There were several 15y/o pitchers who looked better than quite a few 18G college pitchers. N. Bowling and B. Matthews, to name two that I watched. (Yes, the Batbusters were eliminated fairly early, but not because of the pitching.) If you include the 16U eligible pitchers, that group would be BETTER than the college pitchers this year (if you look at actual results of play); A. Carda, C. Tarango, A. Oliveto to name three 16u eligible pitchers that I watched play. Nobody really cares about the returning College pitchers any more than other positions, except maybe Brombacher last year. Bach this year? Nope.

4. "Please tell me how that ruins my credibility."
True. It does not ruin your credibility. You had none to begin with when it comes to Softball outside of your limited purview of Officiating.

My last point is that this thread is providing information about the PFG tournament. If you have some such info to provide, or questions about how it will be run, that would be welcome. Arguing whether it is a good idea or not is off topic.


Some personal advice to you Wade: Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth closed, and have people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and confirm it!

[wadeintothem]

Maybe it's because you said 14's...

I did, but I meant Post 14Us. I'm very much aware that we go from 14U to 18G in CA. So thank you and spaz for correcting that.



Already, for every Gold team there are 20 competing every weekend in CA pretending to be gold or actually are whole teams playing up just to get practice for when they play up, so no BS to me about "3-4 teams like in texas". CA makes Texas look like amatures for teams trying to play up. In fact, its complained about quite a bit on this very forum. I live in CA so I know. There are entire tournaments where they have to basically have 2 different tourney locations, 1 location for the fake golds and one location for the real golds.

Now i think Coaches need a commitee and a voice. I think it sucks they havent had that and they are very important to system... but there is the real alternate POV that this is just a power move to further water down 18G and make it easier for these 15 y/os to effectively compete.

If Gary has his way, and they do lower the bar to effectively compete at the 18G level then there should be a Heybucket rule that there can be no whimpering when twice as many so cal teams show up in your state to take your slots to nationals, since now they can field many more teams full of their playing up players .. and the "gold" 18 y/o pitchers are not there.

I think the alternate POV that 18G should not be made into a showcase level is very real. If you leave it as 18G, those players will just find new teams and new dominent organizations would arise.

I dont know if I agree with it, I almost think that the coaches should simply decide and be done with it, but I am disturbed by the belief you guys think everyone should simply line up like sheep and no one should express any opposition to the Gary Tournament and the reasoning behind the tourney. But the alternate POV that whats good for the coaches and showcasing may not be best for a championship organization is very real and has merit... and maybe they do jsut need to go. Long term, it may be better. Dunno.


So thats the other side that needs to be expressed, despite the attempts to "silence the opposition". you guys must be democrats.

[Iluvblue]

I think the alternate POV that 18G should not be made into a showcase level is very real.



LOL, Im sorry, what the hell is the Gold level now.

The ENTIRE Fall schedule is showcase. You got a few Gold qualifiers that are not and Nationals that is not. You have the JO classic (exposure and what??? 2 or 3 others during the Summer that are.

So out of every Gold tournament played, you have 4 that are not exposure and the rest are. God bless you all. Kind of like those kids that play soccer and dont keep score.


"Team?, hell with the team, it is all about me baby!! I dont need to bunt, coach always tells me to swing away cause some scout might be watching."

[wadeintothem]

True that...

but at least there are a few where you get to see and work the true gold teams...

[NuNu's Dad]

LOL, Im sorry, what the hell is the Gold level now.

Yes. Gold IS the Showcase division with a REALLY competitive series of Qualifiers and 1 "Real Tournament"

I don't think anyone really cares who hosts the "Real Tournament", as long as it doesn't break our piggybanks, and gives the players/parents/coaches a voice in the process. After being blown off for years, GH is going to try to do it right. I'm all for giving him props for that.


As far as showcases, my DD gets more nervous at those than at the qualifiers/Nats. At the Qualifiers and Nats there are many more losers than winner(s), and the girls just go out there and compete. At a showcase your team may win, and you can still lose if you played poorly.

The players understand what they are playing for in the showcases.

[Blind Squirrel]

True that...

but at least there are a few where you get to see and work the true gold teams...

Isn't there really only one tournament where you get to see and work the true gold teams? All of the rest of the time the teams don't even have all of "their" players. All you see is incomplete teams at partial strength biding their time until it matters. Right?

John

[wadeintothem]

True that...

but at least there are a few where you get to see and work the true gold teams...

Isn't there really only one tournament where you get to see and work the true gold teams? All of the rest of the time the teams don't even have all of "their" players. All you see is incomplete teams at partial strength biding their time until it matters. Right?

John

Only a few, usually right before nats. I imagine the teams I see before that will look much like the teams will look at PGf in 2010, with a few rare exceptions. I have no clue how they will be able to lay claim to being the best based on "Name brand alone" if they have excluded some of the the best 18 y/os and made it simply the final culminating HS player showcase.

Before 2 years ago, these same So cal "name brands" believed they owned 18G, then florida beat them.
Before this year, so cal believed they could never be bested by norcal, then nor cal beat them.

Who knows who would beat them next year if they showed up in OKC?

One things seems certain, they are trying desparately to make sure they dont find out.