Outfield play---a question

[Lunatic Fringe]

Situation

1st yr 14 u team has one 9th grader who played jv this year.

This player plays center field

When there is a runner on 1st and there is a hit to the outfield, she always throws thru to try to catch the runner on 3rd, allowing the batter to reach 2nd on the throw. Same story if there is a runner on 2nd where she trys to make the play at the plate, allowing the batter to advance on the throw

She and her parents tell the other parents that they are taught in HS ball to make that throw (and not hit the cutoff)

I think that this is fundamentally wrong in girls fastpitch, mens slowpitch, baseball et al. Why make a long throw on the low percentage that she can beat the runner there and the tag can be made while allowing the batter an extra base, with a good possiblity of losing control of the ball at 3rd or home. This is not to cut down the winning run, but in every situation with this kid.

Is the sky still blue? Do you try to cut down the lead runner everytime from the outfield without the benefit of the cutoff man/girl whatever?

[Whizzer86]

Situation

1st yr 14 u team has one 9th grader who played jv this year.

This player plays center field

When there is a runner on 1st and there is a hit to the outfield, she always throws thru to try to catch the runner on 3rd, allowing the batter to reach 2nd on the throw. Same story if there is a runner on 2nd where she trys to make the play at the plate, allowing the batter to advance on the throw

She and her parents tell the other parents that they are taught in HS ball to make that throw (and not hit the cutoff)

I think that this is fundamentally wrong in girls fastpitch, mens slowpitch, baseball et al. Why make a long throw on the low percentage that she can beat the runner there and the tag can be made while allowing the batter an extra base, with a good possiblity of losing control of the ball at 3rd or home. This is not to cut down the winning run, but in every situation with this kid.

Is the sky still blue? Do you try to cut down the lead runner everytime from the outfield without the benefit of the cutoff man/girl whatever?

Maybe times have changed but I always thought that in most circumstances the best throw was at the lead runner but thrown to where the cut off could let it go or cut it. If no chance at the lead runner keep the runner behind to one base. High School can do funny things though.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Situation

1st yr 14 u team has one 9th grader who played jv this year.

This player plays center field

When there is a runner on 1st and there is a hit to the outfield, she always throws thru to try to catch the runner on 3rd, allowing the batter to reach 2nd on the throw. Same story if there is a runner on 2nd where she trys to make the play at the plate, allowing the batter to advance on the throw

She and her parents tell the other parents that they are taught in HS ball to make that throw (and not hit the cutoff)

I think that this is fundamentally wrong in girls fastpitch, mens slowpitch, baseball et al. Why make a long throw on the low percentage that she can beat the runner there and the tag can be made while allowing the batter an extra base, with a good possiblity of losing control of the ball at 3rd or home. This is not to cut down the winning run, but in every situation with this kid.

Is the sky still blue? Do you try to cut down the lead runner everytime from the outfield without the benefit of the cutoff man/girl whatever?

Maybe times have changed but I always thought that in most circumstances the best throw was at the lead runner but thrown to where the cut off could let it go or cut it. If no chance at the lead runner keep the runner behind to one base. High School can do funny things though.

I agree with Whizzer and that is how we teach it ... In the previous 6 seasons and 5 different Coaches of HS Ball I have watched precisely what Lunatic is describing ... In this case it is because the Coaches lacked knowledege of the game, not because the were inventing a new strategy ... Teach your F8 that you want her throwing the ball slightly above the cut offs head and explain how you can often keep yourself in the double play or often keep the trail runner out of scoring position and still have a shot at the lead runner ... I would say more often than not, that a throw from the outfield to the dish where the cutoff can't get a hand on it, the ball is seldom online anyway ... unless the cutoff is out of position or the outfielder has a cannon ...

It's funny ... because when the 1st DD went out for HS Ball the Head Coach told me that the biggest problem was fixing all the things that the kids were taught to do wrong in REC or Travel Ball ... In her case I think it was an ego thing of showing people that even if it isn't broke, she can fix it ... But from what I have seen in the past 6 years they can run the wheels off a wagon thats standing still ...

[SnocatzDad]

If R1 is strying to advance from first to third on a hit to center field I definitely expect CF to make a play on her with a direct throw if the ball is fielded anywhere within a reasonable range (100' throw or less) if she can't make that throw she isn't going to last in CF. If your "always" hitting the cut, I'm almost "always" going to tell my runners to advance an extra base. I think it's pretty common practice at 14U and above to have the runners round 1B hard on anything to the outfield and many of these kids have the speed to take that extra base if they see the throw go to a cutoff instead of directly to the bag.

On a fenced field unless it gets past the CF that it should be within her range. 2nd base is 84' from home and we expect the catcher to make that throw without a cut, a kid in center needs at least that range.

As they get older throwing strength increases unbelievably. I've seen our 14U CF run to the fence (200') and pick up a ball throw directly to 2B and nearly get the runner who thought that was an easy double. In that case SS had moved into position to cut to 3B but the runner wasn't very fast and the CF made the right decision to take a crack at a kid jogging into 2B.

[PDad]

On a fenced field unless it gets past the CF that it should be within her range. 2nd base is 84' from home and we expect the catcher to make that throw without a cut, a kid in center needs at least that range.

No one suggested CF needs a relay to get a throw to second base. The cutoff is around the infield and gives you the option to cut off the long throw to third or home when there is no play to keep the BR from taking 2B on the long throw.

Example: On a throw to home the catcher will direct the cutoff to either let it go through because she has a play -or- "cut 2" to intercept the throw and throw to second.

The toughest part is getting the IFs to get aligned into the right position to cut off a throw to third or home. The HS coach might not be up to teaching it.

[nohesitation]

Situation

1st yr 14 u team has one 9th grader who played jv this year.

This player plays center field

When there is a runner on 1st and there is a hit to the outfield, she always throws thru to try to catch the runner on 3rd, allowing the batter to reach 2nd on the throw. Same story if there is a runner on 2nd where she trys to make the play at the plate, allowing the batter to advance on the throw

She and her parents tell the other parents that they are taught in HS ball to make that throw (and not hit the cutoff)

I think that this is fundamentally wrong in girls fastpitch, mens slowpitch, baseball et al. Why make a long throw on the low percentage that she can beat the runner there and the tag can be made while allowing the batter an extra base, with a good possiblity of losing control of the ball at 3rd or home. This is not to cut down the winning run, but in every situation with this kid.

Is the sky still blue? Do you try to cut down the lead runner everytime from the outfield without the benefit of the cutoff man/girl whatever?

I say hose the little tart at third.

[MTR]

If R1 is strying to advance from first to third on a hit to center field I definitely expect CF to make a play on her with a direct throw if the ball is fielded anywhere within a reasonable range (100' throw or less) if she can't make that throw she isn't going to last in CF. If your "always" hitting the cut, I'm almost "always" going to tell my runners to advance an extra base. I think it's pretty common practice at 14U and above to have the runners round 1B hard on anything to the outfield and many of these kids have the speed to take that extra base if they see the throw go to a cutoff instead of directly to the bag.
On a fenced field unless it gets past the CF that it should be within her range. 2nd base is 84' from home and we expect the catcher to make that throw without a cut, a kid in center needs at least that range.

As they get older throwing strength increases unbelievably. I've seen our 14U CF run to the fence (200') and pick up a ball throw directly to 2B and nearly get the runner who thought that was an easy double. In that case SS had moved into position to cut to 3B but the runner wasn't very fast and the CF made the right decision to take a crack at a kid jogging into 2B.

I had to read this a couple times and think I disagree with this train of thought as a standard mechanic. If a team is "cutting" every time, the purpose is to prevent and/or cut down the BR attempting to take 2B. I'll give the advance runner 3B everytime to keep the trailer off 2B. If a team is going to go on an offensive run, I'd rather deal with a 1B & 3B carousel than a 2B & Home rotation.

I do agree your outfielders have to have the ability to get the ball to the infield. Then again, I also believe a cut-off should always be in a position to take the cut as that may be the best plan for that particular play.

[Blind Squirrel]

If your "always" hitting the cut, I'm almost "always" going to tell my runners to advance an extra base. I think it's pretty common practice at 14U and above to have the runners round 1B hard on anything to the outfield and many of these kids have the speed to take that extra base if they see the throw go to a cutoff instead of directly to the bag.

Ahh one of the things that has mystified me for years which is how many OFs are apparently told to hit the cut off to the point where they do it reflexively, without thinking. I've seen it happen a ton of times including in 18G and seen smarter/faster, more aggressive batters feast on it, rounding first hoping the ball goes to the cut off so they can take second. Same thing when the OF makes a leisurely throw in. I'm talking specifically about when this happens with no one on base. Of course DD's HS coach told his OFs to ALWAYS throw to the cut off.

That being said, I have also seen many fast kids not even look to take advantage of this situation as they slow down way too much rounding first on routine hits to the outfield. I don't know why.

Geez, I don't know poo about softball but this stuff is even obvious to me.

John

[GIMNEPIWO]

On a lead runner trying to score, with the cutoff positioned properly and being given proper directions ( cut, or nothing said to let it pass ) you have the option of gunning down the lead runner or cutting and keeping the trail runner(s) from advancing ... if the gal has already scored ( or you have no shot ) F2 yells cut, cutoff cuts the ball and nails the gal trying to advance on the throw ... depending on the depth of the ball being thrown in from the outfield and which outfield position it is coming from ... we may use F1,F3 or sometimes but rarely F5 as an interior infield cutoff ... ( and if my outfielder knows she has her I say throw her as* out )
On a runner trying to take the extra base and go 1st to 3rd ... if my outfiedler has her I also say gun her down ... and if it's close we don't send out a cutoff anyway ( F6 may be cutoff at
her normal depth ) ... but in the case that it is deep enough for the runner to try to go 1st to 3rd, depending again on which outfield position the throw is coming from you need to have a cutoff in position getting proper directions ... having a cutoff there doesn't mean the ball always gets cut and you let the lead
runner score or that you aren't trying to keep the runners out of scoring position ... what it does mean is that you have an option to do both ... in addition, if the throw is slightly off line the cutoff can cut it, and redirect the throw or run it in and keep the runners from taking yet another base ...

[Lunatic Fringe]

This particular F8 is like the line from Forrest Gump [i]"**** is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get". [i]Her arm is inconsistant at best. I agree with having the cutoffs lined up to take the cutoff to hold or cut down the R2 if the throw isn't going to get the R1.

I guess the biggest gripe I have about this situation is the parents telling their kid to do it her way and to ignore the coach on this point. Get with the program or go somewhere else![/i][/i]