Player Leaving Mid Season!

[Sam]

A Liar and a cheat? Wow Sam, sounds to me like you had this happen a few times too many to you?? NO? if not, why so angry about this issue.

dont mind Sam, he gets angry and defensive with just about every issue, its a pattern

The only pattern emerging here is your continued willingness to flout your enormous ignorance.

[Phantom]

A Liar and a cheat? Wow Sam, sounds to me like you had this happen a few times too many to you?? NO? if not, why so angry about this issue.

dont mind Sam, he gets angry and defensive with just about every issue, its a pattern

The only pattern emerging here is your continued willingness to flout your enormous ignorance.

OK, you got me

keep up your angry negativity, you are proving me right

[Iluvblue]

You suggested Sam must be "angry" for calling anyone who would skip out on a contract a liar and a cheat.

What do YOU call someone who does it?

10 years ago I may have popped off and made a similar statement. I hope I have grown up enough since then to not make such statements based upon so many UNKNOWN issues. Like I said, if someone is walking away from a team, and especially leaving their CASH on the table to do so, there MUST be reasons behind the decision.


I had a parent of a fantastic player come up to me at our last Fall tournament a few years ago to thank me and tell me that his daughter would be returning to my team in the Spring. About 2 months later I received a phone call from the player, she was very upset, but she was informing me she was leaving my 14u team to play on the Gold team.

Now should I call that parent a liar? He came to me unsolicited to make sure I knew his daughter was coming back, only to leave and go on a top Gold team. Is he a liar?
I dont look at it that way. Sometimes things just happen, and sometimes people just arent in the right place. So if they choose to cut ties and walk away, things must be pretty bad and IMO they should walk away.



This Fall a player that had committed to a 16u team in November (also paid 200 dollar deposit) came to one of my workouts with a friend of hers that was on my team. After speaking with her parents, they decided to leave the 16u team and play on my team, leaving the 200 dollar deposit behind. This was in late January I think. Are they liars? Are they wrong in putting their kid in a situation that they feel is better for their daughter?

Ultimately ALL PARENTS must do what they feel is best for THEIR child. And to fault that parent or call them cheats and liars for doing so is wrong IMO.

[Coach11]

Ultimately ALL PARENTS must do what they feel is best for THEIR child. And to fault that parent or call them cheats and liars for doing so is wrong IMO.

Of course parents should do what is best for their child. But while doing so, there are still ethics involved that parents need to respect.

I can't speak to the scenarios you offered, as I wasn't there. But if in either situation the parents promised you (either verbally or in writing) that their daughter would be returning and thus committing to your team, then yes. They are liars for not doing so. That is the very definition of a lie.

[YellowBalls]

Ultimately ALL PARENTS must do what they feel is best for THEIR child. And to fault that parent or call them cheats and liars for doing so is wrong IMO.

Of course parents should do what is best for their child. But while doing so, there are still ethics involved that parents need to respect.

I can't speak to the scenarios you offered, as I wasn't there. But if in either situation the parents promised you (either verbally or in writing) that their daughter would be returning and thus committing to your team, then yes. They are liars for not doing so. That is the very definition of a lie.

noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.

–verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

Actually, unless they INTENDED not to return at the time they told the team they would return, they are not liars. You have to have the intent to deceive for a statement to be a LIE. Opportunities present themselves all the time, so these people may have had every intention of returning at the time they said they would and an opportunity presented itself AFTER they committed to the coach/team and then they made a tough choice... Example, you work a summer job for 2 years, you tell the boss you will be back next year. Three weeks later, your buddy refers you to a different summer job and you decide to take the new opportunity. So, did you LIE to your old boss.. or... Just saying, stuff happens and people get disappointed, get on with life already...

[MoeFoes]

Who cares? If a parent (player) want to leave. Let them. Keeping them around will only hurt your team. As far as money. Any funds made or donated to a Non-Profit org. stays with them. But if they do not have the 501c then you could probly get back your cash.

[Coach11]

3. an inaccurate or false statement.

No intent necessary to meet this criteria.

Look....I'm not looking to beat a dead horse....but if you promise something to someone, and don't follow through, you lied.

Of course there can be extenuating circumstances. Issues arise...injury, moving out of state, financial.....but if a promise was made.....not a "plan to return"....but a "promise to return"....and you seek other opportunities, than you lied.

We went through this with one of our best players three years ago. At the end of the fall, we requested commitments from all of our players to return in the spring. We do this for the obvious reason of being able to plan our team for the following season and recruit as necessary. This player made the commitment.....attended our winter work outs and as the spring aproached, informed us she would be leaving to play for a team her HS coach was putting together.

I see this girl all the time as our teams compete in many tournaments together, and she and my daughter are still quite friendly. I hold nothing against her. She's a sweatheart. Always a hug for her former coach.

But if her parents ever requested she return to our team, I'd be hard pressed to allow it.

[Sam]

Ultimately ALL PARENTS must do what they feel is best for THEIR child. And to fault that parent or call them cheats and liars for doing so is wrong IMO.

Of course parents should do what is best for their child. But while doing so, there are still ethics involved that parents need to respect.

I can't speak to the scenarios you offered, as I wasn't there. But if in either situation the parents promised you (either verbally or in writing) that their daughter would be returning and thus committing to your team, then yes. They are liars for not doing so. That is the very definition of a lie.

noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.

–verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

Actually, unless they INTENDED not to return at the time they told the team they would return, they are not liars. You have to have the intent to deceive for a statement to be a LIE. Opportunities present themselves all the time, so these people may have had every intention of returning at the time they said they would and an opportunity presented itself AFTER they committed to the coach/team and then they made a tough choice... Example, you work a summer job for 2 years, you tell the boss you will be back next year. Three weeks later, your buddy refers you to a different summer job and you decide to take the new opportunity. So, did you LIE to your old boss.. or... Just saying, stuff happens and people get disappointed, get on with life already...

Well....we are in the presence of quite a celebrity here boys and girls.....now I get the screen name.....meet former President Bill Clinton....lets have a round of applause....and a little bit o "Hail to the Chief".....

[D00bie]

Ultimately ALL PARENTS must do what they feel is best for THEIR child. And to fault that parent or call them cheats and liars for doing so is wrong IMO.

Of course parents should do what is best for their child. But while doing so, there are still ethics involved that parents need to respect.

I can't speak to the scenarios you offered, as I wasn't there. But if in either situation the parents promised you (either verbally or in writing) that their daughter would be returning and thus committing to your team, then yes. They are liars for not doing so. That is the very definition of a lie.

noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.

–verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

Actually, unless they INTENDED not to return at the time they told the team they would return, they are not liars. You have to have the intent to deceive for a statement to be a LIE. Opportunities present themselves all the time, so these people may have had every intention of returning at the time they said they would and an opportunity presented itself AFTER they committed to the coach/team and then they made a tough choice... Example, you work a summer job for 2 years, you tell the boss you will be back next year. Three weeks later, your buddy refers you to a different summer job and you decide to take the new opportunity. So, did you LIE to your old boss.. or... Just saying, stuff happens and people get disappointed, get on with life already...

Yellow,

You can't argue with Coach11, I gave up 3 pages ago, he lives in his own world with his own definitions and has two sets of rules, his rules, and the rules the rest of us normal people use. He doesn't realize that an agreement involves both parties living up to an agreement, both ways. Both parties get to choose what living up to the agreement means whether the other party likes it or not, this is where the rub and conflict is. The other party believing the other is not living up to the agreement doesn't make the other party a liar, or a cheat, but to Coach11 it does.

If you join a team with 12 girls in the winter and in the Spring the team falls apart and you are the only one left and quit, you are a liar in his universe. There is no dead horse here, the only thing dead is his brain.

[D00bie]

If you are from around here , you should know that SoCal ASA mandates the signing of the player agreement. But you are the smrat one ...... right? You might want to take your kid back to rec ball where she has to play a minimum number of innings so you will get you money's worth. Parents do talk but they don't listen much ....... they only want to talk about how good their DD is and how she should be playing SS and batting third every game. The other parents don't want to hear it when they know that their own DD should be doing the same thing.

Feel free to come back when you know what you are talking about.

OK, so by deduction, I'll assume you haven't seen, read, or signed the player agreements I have, that in a nutshell do not guarantee anything, including your kid's spot, even for 1 month, let alone playing time.

And that (SoCal)ASA is the center of the universe.

And...more tangent non-relevent stuff about Rec ball, SS, minimum innings, and other stuff that I really have no idea what you are talking about again.

My point is, if you are gonna make me agree to something that says my daughter is not guaranteed anything, either in writing, or even verbally, if you want to run a team that way, don't be surprised if people leave mid-season either. Works both ways.

I'll throw something non-relevant in too, I like centerfold mommies.

The point is that you don't have to sign anything....you don't have to play travel....she can play rec ball and be guaranteed a minimum number of innings.

You can also sign the agreement and play travel. If you leave mid-season, don't act surprised if you are scorned or if your manager doesn't sign your agreement releasing you to your new team that you solicited against the rules you signed that you would abide by...teach your kid to be a liar and a cheat...it is your unaliable right as a parent. Just don't complain about it.

I'm not talking about ASA. Why would I need a release from an agreement signed with a team that doesn't say anything about playing for someone else or leaving ? Never did I mention that once. Liar ? cheat ? That just doesn't follow.