Pulled Bats.....

[PDad]

Most people indicate that rolled bats are hotter than non-rolled bats. Which is the main reason to get your bat rolled. I do not buy the equal break-in/longevity argument. You don't pay $300 plus shipping both ways to get a $250 bat to last 10% longer.
Experienced bat rollers definitely get more consistent results than anyone will get on their own through normal use, usually better and obviously much quicker.

I took a look at the 18U bats pulled for Champions Cup 18U. One bat had cracks going lengthwise and a crack completely around the barrel (handle side). Makes me wonder about possibly recognizing a rolled bat by examining where the edges of the roller pressed. I'm guessing the rollers are tapered (narrower) at the ends.
...
Yes, i suspect you could build a bat that exceeds the standards prior to rolling, and meets that standard after rolling. Probably a carbon layer that has too little resin, when rolled this layer breaks down, causing the bat to be less bouncy. If you knew ASA was only rolling in perpendicular direction you could orient your cloth to break in that direction more easily.
Thanks.

ASA is stating that ABI may not be absolute, that some can get past that level (see MTR's post earlier in this thread). That they are "testing more game used based and models off the shelf". Which should definitely help. Hopefully they are looking at models from a pro roller and a pro shaver to verify how hot they get and that these models can be caught by compression tests, inspection etc.
I haven't seen anything about ASA testing at fastpitch events, just slowpitch. I think their approach of changing the slowpitch ball to a higher COR (bouncier) and lower compression (softer) is proactive because it negates the rolling and shaving. My understanding is you want a harder bat with those new balls (no Ciallis/Viagra responses needed ).

We really need to get PGF looking at this issue as well. They been ducking, but that is not going to work long term.

What do you think PGF should do? They're using NFHS rules which use ASA's bat certification. They'll automatically pick up any change made by those orgs.

[AlwaysImprove]

Most people indicate that rolled bats are hotter than non-rolled bats. Which is the main reason to get your bat rolled. I do not buy the equal break-in/longevity argument. You don't pay $300 plus shipping both ways to get a $250 bat to last 10% longer.
Experienced bat rollers definitely get more consistent results than anyone will get on their own through normal use, usually better and obviously much quicker.
...
Yes, i suspect you could build a bat that exceeds the standards prior to rolling, and meets that standard after rolling. Probably a carbon layer that has too little resin, when rolled this layer breaks down, causing the bat to be less bouncy. If you knew ASA was only rolling in perpendicular direction you could orient your cloth to break in that direction more easily.
Thanks.

ASA is stating that ABI may not be absolute, that some can get past that level (see MTR's post earlier in this thread). That they are "testing more game used based and models off the shelf". Which should definitely help. Hopefully they are looking at models from a pro roller and a pro shaver to verify how hot they get and that these models can be caught by compression tests, inspection etc.
I haven't seen anything about ASA testing at fastpitch events, just slowpitch. I think their approach of changing the slowpitch ball to a higher COR (bouncier) and lower compression (softer) is proactive because it negates the rolling and shaving. My understanding is you want a harder bat with the new balls.

We really need to get PGF looking at this issue as well. They been ducking, but that is not going to work long term.

What do you think PGF should do? They're using NFHS rules which use ASA's bat certification. They'll automatically pick up any change made by those orgs.

Start with compression testing of in game bats. It is a requirement. The evidence is clear, without in game bat testing, you have unsafe (greater than 98mph) bats.

Work with ASA. Not saying ASA will listen, but PGF should continue to expand their role. Cool thing is that PGF has a leg up on ASA, as they are the coaches. They already know what is going on with bats at the street level. Like what happened with the NCAA. Mike Candrea stood up, said it was clear what the issues were with the bats how that was creating an unfair, and unsafe ( greater than 98mph bats). They then worked to create a system that eliminated the cheating in bats from NCAA.

ASA has an advantage in enforcement, rule structure, testing technology, methodology, etc. Bring those two worlds together, and the game gets better. Removing the collapsed swing missed pitch that ends up dropping over a 200 foot fence will benefit the game.

Slowpitch would never take this on, as a big part of their game is bat cheating. A lot of them definitely have the "Well then you just better step the frick back when you pitch the ball" mentality. Which has led to huge drop in the number of people willing to pitch in slowpitch.

I have never met anyone in fastpitch that approaches the game in that fashion. Just parents/coaches get caught up in a bit of an arms race and feel the pressure to compete, coupled with an impression that there is not rigorous enforcement.

Without a bat lifetime standard of 98mph, there are just to many ways to game the system. Rolling shaving, heating, breaking them in, specific manufacturing techniques, things not yet considered. An approach that actively looks for hot bats (greater than 98mph), and develops easy ways for umpires detect and remove them from the game, will definitely improve the game.

Working together it would be easy to keep bat cheating from becoming a cultural part of this game.

[rbi]

What used to crack me up about ASA was, we would play "ASA" all year in qualifier's and regular tournaments using the same bats, without any problems with dozens of different blues that all had their ASA hats on, then we would travel 3,000 miles to play in a national in a hell whole and the first day those same "ASA" hats would pull bats for whatever reason, point being its was ok in California for 9 months but the one week in the hell whole these "i am special blues" decide to pull several. To me it was a joke, of course they thought "who the hell is this guy to question me", well buddy those same bats were fine with all your colleague's for the last 9 months but, not you?

I dont miss ASA Nationals one bit

[jonriv]

What used to crack me up about ASA was, we would play "ASA" all year in qualifier's and regular tournaments using the same bats, without any problems with dozens of different blues that all had their ASA hats on, then we would travel 3,000 miles to play in a national in a hell whole and the first day those same "ASA" hats would pull bats for whatever reason, point being its was ok in California for 9 months but the one week in the hell whole these "i am special blues" decide to pull several. To me it was a joke, of course they thought "who the hell is this guy to question me", well buddy those same bats were fine with all your colleague's for the last 9 months but, not you?

I dont miss ASA Nationals one bit

Perhaps the problem was with the "hometown" blues not pulling the bats in the first place. Also it is not uncommon in under all jurisdictions(ie NCAA) for the rules being more strictly enforced during championships, playoffs etc

[rbi]

What used to crack me up about ASA was, we would play "ASA" all year in qualifier's and regular tournaments using the same bats, without any problems with dozens of different blues that all had their ASA hats on, then we would travel 3,000 miles to play in a national in a hell whole and the first day those same "ASA" hats would pull bats for whatever reason, point being its was ok in California for 9 months but the one week in the hell whole these "i am special blues" decide to pull several. To me it was a joke, of course they thought "who the hell is this guy to question me", well buddy those same bats were fine with all your colleague's for the last 9 months but, not you?

I dont miss ASA Nationals one bit

Perhaps the problem was with the "hometown" blues not pulling the bats in the first place. Also it is not uncommon in under all jurisdictions(ie NCAA) for the rules being more strictly enforced during championships, playoffs etc

Maybe true but, a national qualifier is championship play, plus i dont like the change in the rule enforcement's. Just like a pitcher (glad my kid is not one btw), and she is fine all season and then gets to nationals and illegal pitchs called left and right, so now a kid who has thrown all year with ASA umps doing games, has to change her delivery in the biggest tourney of the year because some yahoo wants to "enforce" something in the rule book that his colleagues did not for the last 9 months, garbage! Then funny part about it is, you get one guy at Nationals who is illegal pitch happy and then you get to next game and same delivery and, no calls, seriously whats really going on......

[jonriv]

What used to crack me up about ASA was, we would play "ASA" all year in qualifier's and regular tournaments using the same bats, without any problems with dozens of different blues that all had their ASA hats on, then we would travel 3,000 miles to play in a national in a hell whole and the first day those same "ASA" hats would pull bats for whatever reason, point being its was ok in California for 9 months but the one week in the hell whole these "i am special blues" decide to pull several. To me it was a joke, of course they thought "who the hell is this guy to question me", well buddy those same bats were fine with all your colleague's for the last 9 months but, not you?

I dont miss ASA Nationals one bit

Perhaps the problem was with the "hometown" blues not pulling the bats in the first place. Also it is not uncommon in under all jurisdictions(ie NCAA) for the rules being more strictly enforced during championships, playoffs etc

Maybe true but, a national qualifier is championship play, plus i dont like the change in the rule enforcement's. Just like a pitcher (glad my kid is not one btw), and she is fine all season and then gets to nationals and illegal pitchs called left and right, so now a kid who has thrown all year with ASA umps doing games, has to change her delivery in the biggest tourney of the year because some yahoo wants to "enforce" something in the rule book that his colleagues did not for the last 9 months, garbage!

Have seen that complaint too- again the issue is not the enforcement, but the lack of previous enforcement. The fact usually boils down to- if its ileegal(its illegal)

[AlwaysImprove]

Saying Candrea "stood up" is funny as his mystery Nike bat was one of the most illegal around.

Agree it is funny. But the record is pretty clear. Candrea unilaterally disarmed, the Nike bat disappeared. He then stated he was pushing for bat reform.

True cynic would chalk this up to AZ breaking their last Nike bat.

Me, I am not questioning anyone's motivation. I am just enjoying a much more competitive sport at the NCAA level, and hoping the rest of the sport achieves the same.

It just makes the game more fun if you have to hit a ball on the screws to get it over the fence. Falling all over the place, chasing balls out of the zone a mile, dropping balls over the fence for a HR was always lame.

[ontheblack]

Saying Candrea "stood up" is funny as his mystery Nike bat was one of the most illegal around.

Agree it is funny. But the record is pretty clear. Candrea unilaterally disarmed, the Nike bat disappeared. He then stated he was pushing for bat reform.

True cynic would chalk this up to AZ breaking their last Nike bat.

That would be me.

[absdad]

Weight and bats don't upset as much as Mr Notso Freakiniceonthefone at DeMahoseyou Customer Dis-service with his omentum stretched hairy fried chicken gut sticking out the bottom half of his stained wife beater sitting with his untied PF Flyers parked on his empty take out Chinese food container & Diet Coke can laden desk, leaning back in his roller flattened swivel chair while he chomps on some cigar stub he found on the sidewalk yesterday trying to pee in the face of a customer and convince them it's a rain storm ... But really, I'm over it now ...

Actually... I've worked out a deal with Carlo. I send him my Cohiba stubs, and he makes sure I get bats that weigh on the money.

When catching flies, try honey.