Speed of pitchers

[Sam]

"a pitcher needs 3 or 4 pitch's" - those are Bill Hillhouse's words exactly.

Mowatt beat Tennessee with just 2 pitches....... The change up and screwball..........[/quote]


That is just outright funny...you apparently missed the rise balls and drop curves she was throwing....

[jofus]

Angela Tincher basically threw rise, drop, and change and didn't do too shabby in her college career. She may have pitched an occasional curve, but she says that she never even worked on a screw ball, much less actually pitched it.

Lannie('s dad), how was the hunt? I hope the clinic went well for your DD

[Sam]

I just spent a weekend at a softball camp in New York. My DD got to pitch for the coaches at Cal, Fordham, Manhatten, Ruckers, and several other colleges. I didnt see any radar guns. I seen coaches standing behind the pitchers looking for movement and hitting their spots. What I noticed was the head nodding and note taking when a pitcher hit her spots on junk pitches. I also seen them walk away from pitchers that has had it drilled into her head that she has to throw the ball as hard as she can for the over powering " I hope its a strike pitch". These people that are being told that their kid throws 8 different pitches, or even 5 at an age under 16 are doing more harm than good. I dont consider a pitch mastered until a kid can throw that pitch 8 out of 10 times for location.
What good is a 63 mph pitch if its a consistant ball? Hoping for a pitch to be a strike is not pitching! My DD's pitching coach does not move on to another pitch until she has mastered the fastball. The fastball is mainly used for teaching mechanics..... After 8 months of that she moved on to the change up, 6 months later, it was the screwball, 9 months later it was the drop ball, 3 months after that it was rise ball, now we are working on an offspeed that is between a changeup and fastball speed.
Basically it all boils down to speed is nice, but movement and location is what wins games. As batters get older. They get faster and smarter. The main purpose of a pitcher is to disrupt the timing of the batter. If it was all about speed and K's, then why do you need fielders playing behind the pitcher???????
I have never had my DD on a gun nor do I have any interest in her speed. I do have interest in her hitting her spots! There is nothing like a pitcher throwing a 3-2 change up for a strike to defeat a batter! Thats pitching....... A pitcher can demoralize a team on the first pitch of the game by throwing a change up on the first pitch. Yeah you can put them on their heels by throwing the heat, but sometime during the game the batters are gonna catch up to the gas, but junk......... They will be guessing the whole game on whats coming. I love it when a coach or anyone on the opposing team starts yelling " watch the changeup". To me that is music to my ears. Not only has my DD got into their heads, but she is doing it without being overpowering.

Do you think pitchers should throw rise balls for consistent strikes? Ever watch a college game? The entire goal of an elite college pitcher is to be able to throw pitches 2-4" off the plate....that they know will be called for strikes by the umpires.

If you think a batter that only has to plan on two different pitches will be less successful than the batter that must react to 4 different pitches....well lets just say that we can discount much of the opinions you have offered.

[dustyshoes]

What seems to be the average speed of 11yo pitchers? I know each girl is going to be different, but, what seems to be the avg speed? How many pitches should she have by this age?

I have an 11yo pitcher so I'll add my .02. The average speed depends on if she just turned 11 a week ago or is over 11 1/2. Unless you've aged up early most 11s are just starting out with a 12" ball and pitchiing at 40 ft. My DD was barely pushing 40 mph on her FB when she first started with the big ball but within a few weeks was up to mid-40s+. My DD's fairly tall & skinny so she's not going to muscle 60 mph heat but when she couldn't at least get to the mid-40's with her FB her change up was inneffective.

I think 3 is the right number of pitches to have for an 11yo (FB,CU,Peel Drop) and the basic mechanics should be the same for all. If a pitching coach tried to teach my DD a turnover drop I'd look for a new pitching coach immediately. A kid who just turned 11 may not have a fully refined peel drop but it's one that should be devoloped at this age, throwing it incorrectly will not cause any arm damage. Once a peel drop has been mastered grip modifications can turn it into a drop curve/drop screw without altering fundamental mechanics. Hillhouse has some cool clips on his website, here's one of him throwing a drop. If the link doesn't work you can find it on his website, http://www.houseofpitching.com

http://www.houseofpitching.com/movies/dropcurve.html

[Lannie]

Do you think pitchers should throw rise balls for consistent strikes? Ever watch a college game? The entire goal of an elite college pitcher is to be able to throw pitches 2-4" off the plate....that they know will be called for strikes by the umpires.

If you think a batter that only has to plan on two different pitches will be less successful than the batter that must react to 4 different pitches....well lets just say that we can discount much of the opinions you have offered.

I just spent a weekend at a softball camp in New York. My DD got to pitch for the coaches at Cal, Fordham, Manhatten, Ruckers, and several other colleges. I didnt see any radar guns. I seen coaches standing behind the pitchers looking for movement and hitting their spots. What I noticed was the head nodding and note taking when a pitcher hit her spots on junk pitches. I also seen them walk away from pitchers that has had it drilled into her head that she has to throw the ball as hard as she can for the over powering " I hope its a strike pitch". These people that are being told that their kid throws 8 different pitches, or even 5 at an age under 16 are doing more harm than good. I dont consider a pitch mastered until a kid can throw that pitch 8 out of 10 times for location.
What good is a 63 mph pitch if its a consistant ball? Hoping for a pitch to be a strike is not pitching! My DD's pitching coach does not move on to another pitch until she has mastered the fastball. The fastball is mainly used for teaching mechanics..... After 8 months of that she moved on to the change up, 6 months later, it was the screwball, 9 months later it was the drop ball, 3 months after that it was rise ball, now we are working on an offspeed that is between a changeup and fastball speed.
Basically it all boils down to speed is nice, but movement and location is what wins games. As batters get older. They get faster and smarter. The main purpose of a pitcher is to disrupt the timing of the batter. If it was all about speed and K's, then why do you need fielders playing behind the pitcher???????
I have never had my DD on a gun nor do I have any interest in her speed. I do have interest in her hitting her spots! There is nothing like a pitcher throwing a 3-2 change up for a strike to defeat a batter! Thats pitching....... A pitcher can demoralize a team on the first pitch of the game by throwing a change up on the first pitch. Yeah you can put them on their heels by throwing the heat, but sometime during the game the batters are gonna catch up to the gas, but junk......... They will be guessing the whole game on whats coming. I love it when a coach or anyone on the opposing team starts yelling " watch the changeup". To me that is music to my ears. Not only has my DD got into their heads, but she is doing it without being overpowering.

Do you think pitchers should throw rise balls for consistent strikes? Ever watch a college game? The entire goal of an elite college pitcher is to be able to throw pitches 2-4" off the plate....that they know will be called for strikes by the umpires.

If you think a batter that only has to plan on two different pitches will be less successful than the batter that must react to 4 different pitches....well lets just say that we can discount much of the opinions you have offered.

Sam,
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Im on 3 hours sleep from my weekend trip. I am not saying that a pitcher should throw the ball over the plate. My DD is taught to pitch on the black and off the plate.
There is a difference in a pitcher and a thrower, a pitcher throws a ball that starts in the strike zone and ends up being off the plate. I had assumed that people that know pitching would have know what I meant. My bad..............

Mowatt beat Tennessee with just 2 pitches....... The change up and screwball..........

That is just outright funny...you apparently missed the rise balls and drop curves she was throwing....

"a pitcher needs 3 or 4 pitch's" - those are Bill Hillhouse's words exactly.

Mowatt beat Tennessee with just 2 pitches....... The change up and screwball..........[/quote]


That is just outright funny...you apparently missed the rise balls and drop curves she was throwing....[/quote]

Yeah Sam it is funny that you mentioned that....... I guess you didnt do the pitch count on how many change ups were used with the screwball. Its also funny that you failed to see that the changeup and screwball were the pitches that were the most effective...... I guess that means that we can discount your opinion as well..............

[Sam]

Lannie,

I don't do pitch counts on TV games that don't involve teams I'm coaching....actually I don't do pitch counts at all....apparently you do.

Any knowledgeable observer who watched those games....or any game for that matter...would know that you have to throw pitches outside to set up inside pitches....you have to throw hard to set up off-speed pitches....you have to throw high to set up low pitches.

OBTW: College coaches aren't necesarily the sharpest knives in the drawer...especially ones that haven't been to the WCWS..

[Lannie]

Sam,

Im not sure why you developed a case of the red ass with me.......

But for pitch counts, yes I do them for scouting weakness in batters. If you would like I could send you some material that would educate you in the importance of doing it.........
Yes you are correct about some college coaches not being sharp knives in the drawer, but I can say that this past weekend I had my hands on 2 olympic coaches rings that do know the importance of pitch counts. ANd Im sure they are more qualified

Sam,
I was talking about these so called pitching instructors that place speed over placement of pitches. I was not talking about unitentionally throwing balls. Instead of reading my post like a anal retentive english professor, relax and have fun. You are starting to sound like you are a LL softball president.

You have your opinion and I have mine. I dont go red ass on you and I dont discount your opinions. So how bout taking the paper and spend some time in the bathroom. It sounds like you have an irritable bowel and you needs some me time on the commode.

[Lannie]

Lannie('s dad), how was the hunt? I hope the clinic went well for your DD

Joe, the hunt went great. Lannie got to spend a lot of time with a coach that HAS a college world series ring. She decided that the northern schools are to cold and she wants to play in a warmer climate. We had an awesome time! The coaches that were there from the schools Lannie targeted asked Lannie a lot of questions and we even had some east coast powerhouse travel ball team coaches ask her about playing for them this summer.
Oh, when I got to Charlotte to get on the plane I found out Im on the terrorist watch list........ Scary stuff at first, but in the end it was funny. It even has a positive side to it..... Now I can use it on the boys that come calling on Lannie. I have already used it on one potential BF.

[Lannie]

At higher levels 55 mph "junk" gets driven into the outfield.

Funny you should say that soreshins...... My DD played 23U this year against teams made up of D1 girls and she is a junk ball pitcher that doesnt overpower batters and I dont recall the fence being dented by the screaming line drives you mentioned...... I do recall the girls on the other teams commenting wanting to know how old that girl was that was pitching and how hard it was to get a solid hit.

[Sam]

Sam,

Im not sure why you developed a case of the red ass with me.......

But for pitch counts, yes I do them for scouting weakness in batters. If you would like I could send you some material that would educate you in the importance of doing it.........
Yes you are correct about some college coaches not being sharp knives in the drawer, but I can say that this past weekend I had my hands on 2 olympic coaches rings that do know the importance of pitch counts. ANd Im sure they are more qualified

Sam,
I was talking about these so called pitching instructors that place speed over placement of pitches. I was not talking about unitentionally throwing balls. Instead of reading my post like a anal retentive english professor, relax and have fun. You are starting to sound like you are a LL softball president.

You have your opinion and I have mine. I dont go red ass on you and I dont discount your opinions. So how bout taking the paper and spend some time in the bathroom. It sounds like you have an irritable bowel and you needs some me time on the commode.

You spoke of the importance solely of hitting a spot. Then you wrote about Mowatt doing something she clearly never did. Now you talk about charting pitches and its importance....well...here's why I quit charting pitches....unless you see that hitter over and over again...it does no good...its worthless information and fails to account for the relative movement, speed, and location of your pitcher on a given day.

I get the red ass when people post stuff on here that won't help anybody...and might actually lead them to do something stupid. That is what you were doing.....now please allow me to wipe and flush.