Speed of pitchers

[Mom2softball]

Speed: you have a top speed fast ball (highest speed hit, that one in 20), consistant top fastball speed (high average, drops down 2 mph+- from top), average fast ball speed (drops another 1 mph+- from consistant top speed). Then you have the movement pitches which are another 1-4 mph slower (excluding change). 14U the movement pitchers don't even throw the fastball, so you'll never see that top speed in a game, you'll see 4-7 mph below a kids top speed.

Number of pitches: a 2nd 12U pitcher that has been pitching since 1st year 8U has been pitching 5 full years! There is no reason that they cannot have 8+ pitches. By the end of 10U they could easily have the basic 6. They have probably been through multiple variations & creating different movement on each basic pitch which would constitute another pitch. My 14U has 3 pure change ups & uses all 3 (uses at least 2 each game) depending on the situation as well as which is working better that day, then has a change up variation on drop & curve If the big # bothers people, one can say that a girl has the basic 6 pitches plus variations on those 6.

[Clean_up]

Speed: you have a top speed fast ball (highest speed hit, that one in 20), consistant top fastball speed (high average, drops down 2 mph+- from top), average fast ball speed (drops another 1 mph+- from consistant top speed). Then you have the movement pitches which are another 1-4 mph slower (excluding change). 14U the movement pitchers don't even throw the fastball, so you'll never see that top speed in a game, you'll see 4-7 mph below a kids top speed.

Number of pitches: a 2nd 12U pitcher that has been pitching since 1st year 8U has been pitching 5 full years! There is no reason that they cannot have 8+ pitches. By the end of 10U they could easily have the basic 6. They have probably been through multiple variations & creating different movement on each basic pitch which would constitute another pitch. My 14U has 3 pure change ups & uses all 3 (uses at least 2 each game) depending on the situation as well as which is working better that day, then has a change up variation on drop & curve If the big # bothers people, one can say that a girl has the basic 6 pitches plus variations on those 6.

EXACTLY!!! DD Has thrown 2 different change ups and 2 different screw balls. She has abandoned the twist of the arm screw ball because of the strain on her elbow and currently is using only 1 style of change-up because she is growing and having timing issues with the other. She will, however, begin working again on the other CU in another year or so because it is a wicked pitch when thrown correctly, just not ready for it now....Still, that's 6 pitches.

[3rd Base Coach]

I guess it's time that I 'jump into' this thread - because it has so many interesting things to talk about. I only coach so that I can call pitching signs, otherwise I would probably fall asleep on the bench.
Without wearing sandals (as Sam does) & with 1 hand behind my back, I can give 12-14 signs with the free hand. Of course it gets confusing sometimes because I have right handers & leftys. Although each can throw 7-9 different pitches that move (fastball doesn't move), they can go 'backdoor' on about 4 of them which brings the total to 11-13.
I know some of you will say that they are 'high' or 'low' fast balls / or inside, outside fastballs but when you sit & catch the girls 3-4 days per week, you know what each pitch is doing. Sometimes (like today) the pitchers & I just smile or are amazed at how the ball 'breaks' or 'moves'.

[NuNu's Dad]

Good thread. Alot of good points made.

My DD is a pitcher. She has had one of those pitching coaches that refuses to allow them to throw any movement pitches until they can throw the ball where they want to! There are a ton of kids who want to skip that step. They are throwing curves, drops, rises and screws without having any idea where the ball is going (and most of them look suspiciously like fastballs with a 12-6 rotation).

When my DD was in 10U rec ball at the first All Star practice, the coach wanted to figure out signs that would work for everyone and asked the 3 pitchers which pitches they threw. The first pitcher went through five and the second one went through her 6. My DD says fastball and CU in any location. He looks at her like huh!?! He couldn't figure out how she was better than the other two with 2 pitches.


I still see some really good pitchers that look like they only throw a couple of pitches. A certain Stanford commit looks like she throws a drop (low and away at 65mph) and a riseball (65 mph with 12-6 rotation) most pitches, an occasional curve to rightys (usually w/ 2 strikes) and an occasional changeup. Many Gold players don't even sniff the ball.

My DD actually throws alot of different pitches, but it is sort of like juggling alot of balls: each pitch you add, detracts from the ones she is already throwing. Her Travel coach likes four of them and calls them all the time. The High School coach likes a different four of them and calls those all the time. The only ones in common are the changeup (duh) and the screw. During each season, she continually gets better at the ones that are being called all the time. The ones that don't get called are not as sharp.

The first year of High School she used to say "I hate the riseball, I'm no good at it!" She threw enough of them that she started to love the Ks she got with it. Now she expects to get really good with the pitches the HS coach loves during HS season! It is sort of a vacation from the same old thing.

Alot of the coaches expect the girls to adjust to how they like to call pitches, not vice-versa. I think the big reason the girls add all these pitches is because the coaches expect them to have them. That seems to apply whether the coaches are Rec, Travel, HS or College.

[jofus]

Not that there isn't a bunch of good posts going on here but just as a point of reference as to what this thread was originally about.

What seems to be the average speed of 11yo pitchers? I know each girl is going to be different, but, what seems to be the avg speed? How many pitches should she have by this age?

Heck, I've been paying attention, so this question is easy now.

Her average speed should be somewhere between 35 and 55 mph, and she should have somewhere between 1 and 14 different pitches

[3Bsnag]

Y'all got in trouble, or re-focused.

[3Bsnag]

Glad you took the joke well!

Now off to how fast an 11 yr old should pitch.....

[Lannie]

I just spent a weekend at a softball camp in New York. My DD got to pitch for the coaches at Cal, Fordham, Manhatten, Ruckers, and several other colleges. I didnt see any radar guns. I seen coaches standing behind the pitchers looking for movement and hitting their spots. What I noticed was the head nodding and note taking when a pitcher hit her spots on junk pitches. I also seen them walk away from pitchers that has had it drilled into her head that she has to throw the ball as hard as she can for the over powering " I hope its a strike pitch". These people that are being told that their kid throws 8 different pitches, or even 5 at an age under 16 are doing more harm than good. I dont consider a pitch mastered until a kid can throw that pitch 8 out of 10 times for location.
What good is a 63 mph pitch if its a consistant ball? Hoping for a pitch to be a strike is not pitching! My DD's pitching coach does not move on to another pitch until she has mastered the fastball. The fastball is mainly used for teaching mechanics..... After 8 months of that she moved on to the change up, 6 months later, it was the screwball, 9 months later it was the drop ball, 3 months after that it was rise ball, now we are working on an offspeed that is between a changeup and fastball speed.
Basically it all boils down to speed is nice, but movement and location is what wins games. As batters get older. They get faster and smarter. The main purpose of a pitcher is to disrupt the timing of the batter. If it was all about speed and K's, then why do you need fielders playing behind the pitcher???????
I have never had my DD on a gun nor do I have any interest in her speed. I do have interest in her hitting her spots! There is nothing like a pitcher throwing a 3-2 change up for a strike to defeat a batter! Thats pitching....... A pitcher can demoralize a team on the first pitch of the game by throwing a change up on the first pitch. Yeah you can put them on their heels by throwing the heat, but sometime during the game the batters are gonna catch up to the gas, but junk......... They will be guessing the whole game on whats coming. I love it when a coach or anyone on the opposing team starts yelling " watch the changeup". To me that is music to my ears. Not only has my DD got into their heads, but she is doing it without being overpowering.

[Lannie]

"a pitcher needs 3 or 4 pitch's" - those are Bill Hillhouse's words exactly.

Mowatt beat Tennessee with just 2 pitches....... The change up and screwball..........

[soreshins]

If you think speed is not important you are sadly mistaken. At higher levels 55 mph "junk" gets driven into the outfield. Many college coaches don't use radar guns because they can tell within a mph or two how fast a pitcher is throwing. But, why take a kid who throws 55 with great movement when you can get a kid who throws 60+ with great movement. Great movement is not the sole province of slowballers.

If you don't throw 60 mph most schools (and many gold teams) are not going to have a lot of interest. But I do agree that a 62 mph ball is a ball. If you can't get the ball in the zone consitstantly no one is going to be interested either. In addition, at higher levels, the 60 mph straight ball gets driven into the outfield just like the 55 mph junk.