Speed of pitchers

[Sam]

OK I could name 5 variations of each pitch such as drop - slow drop - drop curve - drop screwball - drop drop ( one that actually drops ). The reality is a pitcher needs 3 or 4 pitch's that they own and that actually do what they are supposed to do. JMHO

Depends on what age you are speaking of.....

[DonnieS]

OK I could name 5 variations of each pitch such as drop - slow drop - drop curve - drop screwball - drop drop ( one that actually drops ). The reality is a pitcher needs 3 or 4 pitch's that they own and that actually do what they are supposed to do. JMHO

"a pitcher needs 3 or 4 pitch's" - those are Bill Hillhouse's words exactly.

Regarding working on 8 different pitches to keep the girls from getting bored, what I hear is that this frustrates kids. Our situation is that my kid loves her pitching coach and when we finally get time to drive up (2.5 hours one way) to see him, boredom is not an issue, he treats her like his granddaughter. For you guys who see your pitching coach weekly, different story.
My kid may be a little o/c in that she focuses on something, pitching, writing poetry, home work, pissing me off, to an extreme and wants to complete it before she takes a break.

[Tucson]

I agree on 3-4 pitches. When someone tells me that they have 6. I am suspect.

U of Az. had a dilemma last season because the pitching coach insisted that one of the girls develop a pitch that she didn't have. Her argument was "I was recruited here with the pitches that I have." Long story short, he didn't let her pitch.

If the batters can't hit the ball and you are successful at the level you want to be at, hitting your spots with your pitches is whats important.

A really good change can make any pitcher look good.

[jofus]

My DD will be a first year 14U this year, but an older one (she turns 14 in Feb). She isn't a great pitcher yet, although I think she may have some potential, but it still hasn't clicked for her yet (mentally, as in, wanting to put in the work required). Sad as this is, if it doesn't click soon, it may be too late in today's fastpitch world

As relates to speed, she played 12U last year in Virginia/Tennessee. For other pitchers that I saw, comparing them to her pitching, I would say that I saw speeds from the low 40's (not very common) up to the mid 50's (also not very common). Most were probably high 40's to low 50's. Usually, the faster ones seemed to have only a fastball (or whatever pitch that looked like their fastball) and decent to poor changeups. Interestingly enough, even the poorer changeups worked quite often.

My DD pitches fairly consistently in the high 40's to 50. One game she got mad, pitched without thinking about it, and was probably close to 55, so I know it's in there somewhere, if she can just find it all the time. Her control is improving, but she still has a ways to go.

As to pitches, I agree that some teachers show them different pitches to keep them interested. My DD's coach does this, both for that reason, and to see which pitches she seems comfortable with. He has shown her different grips and releases for several pitches, like drop ball, curve, changeup, etc. But, in practice, we usually work on FB, drop, 2 (actually, he's been showing her a third recently) changeups, curve and to a lesser extent, screw. In the last month or so, he's started on the rise ball a little.

In games last summer, I usually only called FB, drop, curve, and whichever of the 2 changeups seemed to be working better that day.

Her drop ball drops a little, but not a ton. Her curve ball breaks a little, but not a ton. Her 2 changeups are probably her best pitches, she disguises them well, and they are different speeds (one about 10 mph slower, one closer to 15 mph slower) and give the batter a little different look. Her screw ball works occasionally, but is too slow. Who knows where the rise ball is going (not to mention whether it actually "rises" or not, although occasionally it does seem to level out more than her fastball).

So, I don't claim that my DD can pitch 55+ (even though she may have at least came close to 55 a couple times last year) or that she can throw umpteen pitches, even though she has probably been shown how to pitch that many different ones. She pitches in the high 40s and has maybe 4 pitches that I feel comfortable calling in most situations.

I'm just trying to get her to work on her strength this winter (legs, core, and arms), and I found a place where we can pitch a few times a week inside, about 50-75 pitches each time, in addition to her weekly lessons. If she can get closer to 55 by spring, improve her control, and at least improve her drop, changeup(s), and maybe curve, I will be extremely happy. A rise ball that I would feel comfortable calling a few times a game would just be icing on the cake

[Thefinalword]

Tucson I agree with you. Case in point ... Lisa Dodd was recruited by UCLA. She was a very good pitcher and all around player. What did they do? They insisted on her learning a riseball. Lisa had a wicked drop - drop curve, that she could nail the outside corner with. (She also had an amazing changeup). They had her concentrate so much on the riseball, it wrecked her normal way of pitching. Why would UCLA recruit her and then try to change what made her so successful ????? One theory is that UCLA liked to stockpile good pitchers so that their competitors didn't get them. If you don't like a pitchers style, don't recruit them.
IMHO, Dodd could have dominated in college if they just left her alone. Too bad.

[Cannonball]

Ok, so I've never been one for political correctness. I believe a lot of the "My child throws 60" and "My child had 10 pitches and throws all of them for strikes" is a part of parental insecurity. Why worry if you say she has 3 pitches that she can spot on any given count, that you might give the impression she's lacking advanced skills. Also, if she's throwing 55-57, well, heck, she't not ever getting that D-I ride. Everyone knows that colleges only want the 60 mph or more stud. I don't believe that.

"My dd throws a drop, change, 2 seem fb, 4 seem fb, curve, drop, drop curve," ... come on! Per my child FB, Change, drop, curve. Yes, she can throw a rise. However, for a strike? Throw it when the game is on the line? Still, she lost 2 games in 08 school ball and summer total. Is she a stud? NOPE! How about speed? I don't have a clue. She throws hard enough to win. Nuff said. If we ever get her "gunned" then ok. We're not running around worried about that. Now, if she said that she wasn't having fun then I'd worry!

[soreshins]

On the Juice

I suggest that you attend a pitching lesson with one or both of your 12U pitchers to see what is going on. It is true that most upper level pitchers throw very few fastballs. But that does not mean a fastball is a bad pitch at 12U. At 12U good mechanics is the important point. Throwing a fastball with good mechanics is better than throwing a curve ball (or what they call a "curve ball") with poor mechanics. Bad habits are hard to break.

We have all seen pitchers who threw "6 pitches" that all looked about the same--drop = low fastball, rise = high fastball, curve = outside fastball etc.. At 12U they should be focusing on fewer pitches with good mechanics to build a foundation for the future. Many 12U pitchers have done very well throwing fastballs, change ups and peal drops. Once the mechanics of the basic pitches are mastered, you can move on to turnover drops, curves, and rises. Good mechanics makes it possible to throw these high movement pitches. 12U is the time to build the foundation.

[jofus]

Fastball= high outside

They only throw their fastball high and outside?

[Clean_up]

I agree on 3-4 pitches. When someone tells me that they have 6. I am suspect.

U of Az. had a dilemma last season because the pitching coach insisted that one of the girls develop a pitch that she didn't have. Her argument was "I was recruited here with the pitches that I have." Long story short, he didn't let her pitch.

If the batters can't hit the ball and you are successful at the level you want to be at, hitting your spots with your pitches is whats important.

A really good change can make any pitcher look good.

Why suspect with 6 pitches? FB, CU, Drop, Rise, Curve and Screw. Seems like most pitchers throw 4 of these I guess is what most of you are saying, but why not six? IF DD doesn't throw all six confidently and with the desired result, should she abandon 1 or 2 and just work the other 4, say when she's 15 or so? Right now at 12 she is still developing them all and all do work, not 100% of the time, but coach calls them all and she throws them all (of course sometimes a rise ends up a screwball or a meatball and a drop doesn't drop)

[AM Softball]

Please help me out!!

I have two 12u players that have the same pitching coach, both have an arsenal of eight pitches. Both have control problems and if a strike is needed the fastball is not an option. One of the parents told me that the pitching coach told them that in college the pitchers rarely throw fastballs so it is more important that the pitchers work on their spins.

Maybe I'm behind the times or old school or just uneducated in this area, but shouldn't a pitcher master the proper form and mechanics before adding more pitches? Secondly, how could a one hour lesson with a 10, 11 or 12 year old cover so much? Lastly, if a young pitcher only throws junk at such an early age what effect does that have on the kids arm?
Please share you thoughts.

Just another perspective.

1. Some college pitchers DO throw fastballs and location can be just as effective as movement if you hit your spots or hit the batters weak spots. Fastballs can also set up other pitches so I think this depends on who you ask. I do know pitcers that do not throw fastballs as well; it depends on the coach.
2. 10U/12U growing girls should learn proper FASTBALL mechanics before they learn pitches. You can teach a change because the mechanics are fairly similar but they need the good mechanics FIRST: balance, leg drive, wrist snaps, etc. If they don't have this, the other pitches will be difficult to teach
3. A pitcher needs a good fastball, good change (or off speed pitch) and a few mastered pitches. Then add the others if they can handle them. MOST pitchers are not complete. Most are good rise ball pitchers but struggle with the drop and visa versa. I know Olympic players that do not throw 6 pitches well. They throw what they are successful with and use the others to set up those pitches they throw well. Cat and Lisa are two pitchers that I think are complete and this is why they are so good.

My experience: these coaches teach too much too soon and young players need repetition doing it correctly. If you start teaching them these other pitches before they can handle it, they get messed up. (for example you teach the turnover drop and now they turn their fastballs over, not realizing they are doing it)

We cannot teach 10-12 year olds like they are college pitchers because physically, mentally and emotionally, they are not the same. I believe this is the problem many advanced instructors have. They teach them all these pitches and then you have to go back, and reteach the stuff they have already mastered, which can mess them up even more.

Also, a true way to tell if the pitch REALLY works is the spin yet coaches don't take the time to teach the correct spin. I cannot tell you how many girls say they have a curve but the ball does't even spin right. If the ball doesn't spin right, it is impossible to make it move right, therefore, their so called curve is really an outside fastball, not a curve.

Lastly, someone said all pitching coaches know the kids get bored so they teach them a bunch of pitches?? HUH?? This is NOT true and even college pitchers work on mechanics in the fall. The CSUF coach told me she only let her pitchers throw fast and change in the fall until they could master hitting their spots so that is a TOP pitcher (played at UCLA) and coach that is saying this. They should not get bored when mastering important skills. If a child is bored with multiplication facts and doesn't learn them, then how can they do the math when it becomes harder? There MUST be a good foundation.

Just my opinion!