I can't take it anymore

[AlwaysImprove]

I have a senior and a sophomore in college.

I have now heard of numerous girls decommiting (jmo has posted a couple lately on UCS) in the last year or so. I think the attitudes are changing - as is evidenced by two posters considering a verbal a pinky swear. If this practice continues to become more common, which I think it will, then it is just a matter of time until the coaches will have to start recruiting more girls than available spots just to make sure that enough show up the fall of freshman year. Pretty soon it will be like football where players give "soft verbals".

You think early verballing is bad, wait until it is a free for all with the "second tier" players waiting in line for the spots the 5 star girls leave behind.

Glad my DDs went through the process when there was still a significant amount of integrity on both side of the process even though I still think the coaches held (and still do hold) the cards.

I'm not contesting your point about integrity because I;d want my kid to approach it similarly, i.e. with Integrity. But I also think that at the age of 14/15 and especially with girls, to get a big time Div 1, teir 1 school saying "we want you and come play for us", is really hard to turn away from, especially if her "perfect choice" has not gotten to the point of showing interest. I think that is my only point.

It's easy to talk about integrity but we are talking about kids making big decisions, in an environment where we know things are sure to change. I do believe that de-committing is not uncommon, but it isn't prevailing either.... I think the original poster suggested that the fix to all of this is to not recruit early (at least as I read it).... I don;t know what the answer is but a verbal commitment is just that, a verbal commitment. If it was legally binding, it'd be looked at as a contract and both parties would be held to it. I'm not condoning folks make disintegrous decision or the pinky swear as I originally put it, but was simply communicating a verbal is essentially equivalent to a pinky swear in it's horsepower. Frankly it means much more from the school than the perspective student because the school has far more to lose by backing out. I know of numerous girls that have verbally commited and have seen that through. And I know of a handful of girls who have decommitted. I think this is just part of the process and coaches aren't caught off guard by it. they have their kids ranked and they are talking with #2 until which time #1 is signed, I suspect.

Anyway this discussion seems to be focused around the integrity involved in a verbal commit and I am totally with you all there. But I can't put aside the fact that things change, kids grow up, minds change....and it's just part of the process. I have no first hand knowledge of this but my gues is that coaches of teams that are stiffed, are disappointed but ultimately supportive of a girl making a decision to go where ever she goes because afterall, it is about the kid.... Maybe that is jsut my ignorant bliss speaking...

I agree with the sense that if a kid wishes to decommit, from a verbal agreement made as a freshman or sophmore in HS, sure they should be able to decommit. I think there are definitely parents that make a huge deal when this happens, and I agree with you, it should be a so what moment.

But you have to be careful. A lot of parents of potential recruits may hear what you are saying and think you are suggesting a strategy built around a late junior or senior year decommit is a great approach. An approach of taking early commit because you can just decommit and move on, or upgrade your commit if something better comes along. This is what I believe MTR proposes as smart.

Trust me, this is a dicey approach. When you commit to School A, you disappear. Even coaches that were slightly interest scratch you off their list. You wait about 6 months and schools at your level will be done and out of money. You have probably gotten to the point where that school has filled the no money part of their roster. You decommit, you are not likely find the same level of deal.

[jonriv]

Using the Umass fan list like AI suggest is a smart move. Although there are some (let's just say) optimistic "committs" the VAST majority are accurate and it is a great roadmap. Do the math (along with the current roster) and figure out who has money left. Always a good idea to know what positions have been committed too. As AI suggests- playing the musucal chairs method might just get your player standing alone in the cold.

[Tyler Durden]

Using the Umass fan list like AI suggest is a smart move. Although there are some (let's just say) optimistic "committs" the VAST majority are accurate and it is a great roadmap. Do the math (along with the current roster) and figure out who has money left. Always a good idea to know what positions have been committed too. As AI suggests- playing the musucal chairs method might just get your player standing alone in the cold.

JonBovi is correct. Use the UMass UCS list as a roadmap. This is where having a good (i.e. well-connected) recruiting coordinator in your organization, is priceless. (JMO for example). You need to 1)decide which schools your DD is interested in; 2)look at their current verballed athletes at your DD's position(s) and year; 3) look at their current roster of athletes at your DD's position(s) and what year those players graduate; 4) find a way to get on that College coaches radar if they appear to have a need and you want that school. This is the info that a good recruiting coordinator will have (especially the info as to whether the school still has money for your DD's year). If you don't have access to a recruiting coordinator, you need to do this legwork on your own.

[MTR]

I think the (potential) issue with early verbals is the following(JMO):

1) What they represent is not fully understood by most players/parents

2)It causes an "arms race" among coaches-feeling they have to commit people early and among the recruits who feel that "I have to commit now or I will never get the chance"

A standard pressure tactic in marketing in many businesses, from sports to car dealers. What would happen if people just decided to not fall for this?

3) Most younger players are not in the position to know what the right college might be

4) Most parents are ill prepared to make such decisions that early in the recruiting process

There seems to be a fair amount of folks who track the verbals to NLI path. I wonder if anyone continues tracking through college and graduation to see how many graduate from the school to which they received a verbal?

Of course all of these can be avoided with well informed, strong parenting- but as we all know that is not always the case. I guess the problem I have with them is that if they do not mean anything and that the NCAA does not recognise them- then why are they such a big deal?

Who makes them a big deal? To the coaches, they are a freebie that gives the perception of a scholarship to some. Yes, yes, I know, the majority honor them, but people should still know that they don't need to stop talking to others and that others can still approach them. If they choose to isolate themselves from the system, that's their prerogative.

[AlwaysImprove]

I think the (potential) issue with early verbals is the following(JMO):

1) What they represent is not fully understood by most players/parents

2)It causes an "arms race" among coaches-feeling they have to commit people early and among the recruits who feel that "I have to commit now or I will never get the chance"

A standard pressure tactic in marketing in many businesses, from sports to car dealers. What would happen if people just decided to not fall for this?

3) Most younger players are not in the position to know what the right college might be

4) Most parents are ill prepared to make such decisions that early in the recruiting process

There seems to be a fair amount of folks who track the verbals to NLI path. I wonder if anyone continues tracking through college and graduation to see how many graduate from the school to which they received a verbal?

Of course all of these can be avoided with well informed, strong parenting- but as we all know that is not always the case. I guess the problem I have with them is that if they do not mean anything and that the NCAA does not recognise them- then why are they such a big deal?

Who makes them a big deal? To the coaches, they are a freebie that gives the perception of a scholarship to some. Yes, yes, I know, the majority honor them, but people should still know that they don't need to stop talking to others and that others can still approach them. If they choose to isolate themselves from the system, that's their prerogative.

You talk to other schools you had better do it on the downlow. Word gets back to your committed school, you will likely yourself really picking up the pace of your back channel action.

Given the economy and college tuition shooting through the roof. Great schools scholarship can be +$200k. Even for instate better than average schools 4 years can quickly get to $50k. Trust me that school has a huge list of prospects. You start to look like much trouble for them they are going to move on.

Let MTR give up his deal. You stay smart and find a great school for your kid, watch the UMassFan list, be realistic about your kids level of play. Realize that getting the verbal, is merely a step in the ultimate goal, a great college experience for your kid and hopefully a decent degree.

You already have enough working against you. Fresh or soph female in high school, her unaware boyfriend who knows too much, chest pounding father or overly protective mother, select coach with his own agenda, college coach with their own agenda, and loads of roller coaster emotion. Oh, BTW the college coach and select coach are both aware of your very weak position in things.

You are already yelling at yourself in the car too much, white knuckling the fence when she starts a hitting slump at that critical time in the recruiting cycle and your work moved an intern into your office 6 months ago because they forgot you still work for them. You go adding in a talk to second schools while verballed to a school, tenuous at best. That goes south on you, PM me and we will get someone to come over and put you on suicide watch.

[Pale Rider]

...sometimes, guess its human nature, we over complicate everything. Make a quantum physics problem out of 2+2...

Sometimes I hate softball altogether...

[softball65]

I have a senior and a sophomore in college.

I have now heard of numerous girls decommiting (jmo has posted a couple lately on UCS) in the last year or so. I think the attitudes are changing - as is evidenced by two posters considering a verbal a pinky swear. If this practice continues to become more common, which I think it will, then it is just a matter of time until the coaches will have to start recruiting more girls than available spots just to make sure that enough show up the fall of freshman year. Pretty soon it will be like football where players give "soft verbals".

You think early verballing is bad, wait until it is a free for all with the "second tier" players waiting in line for the spots the 5 star girls leave behind.

Glad my DDs went through the process when there was still a significant amount of integrity on both side of the process even though I still think the coaches held (and still do hold) the cards.

I'm not contesting your point about integrity because I;d want my kid to approach it similarly, i.e. with Integrity. But I also think that at the age of 14/15 and especially with girls, to get a big time Div 1, teir 1 school saying "we want you and come play for us", is really hard to turn away from, especially if her "perfect choice" has not gotten to the point of showing interest. I think that is my only point.

It's easy to talk about integrity but we are talking about kids making big decisions, in an environment where we know things are sure to change. I do believe that de-committing is not uncommon, but it isn't prevailing either.... I think the original poster suggested that the fix to all of this is to not recruit early (at least as I read it).... I don;t know what the answer is but a verbal commitment is just that, a verbal commitment. If it was legally binding, it'd be looked at as a contract and both parties would be held to it. I'm not condoning folks make disintegrous decision or the pinky swear as I originally put it, but was simply communicating a verbal is essentially equivalent to a pinky swear in it's horsepower. Frankly it means much more from the school than the perspective student because the school has far more to lose by backing out. I know of numerous girls that have verbally commited and have seen that through. And I know of a handful of girls who have decommitted. I think this is just part of the process and coaches aren't caught off guard by it. they have their kids ranked and they are talking with #2 until which time #1 is signed, I suspect.

Anyway this discussion seems to be focused around the integrity involved in a verbal commit and I am totally with you all there. But I can't put aside the fact that things change, kids grow up, minds change....and it's just part of the process. I have no first hand knowledge of this but my gues is that coaches of teams that are stiffed, are disappointed but ultimately supportive of a girl making a decision to go where ever she goes because afterall, it is about the kid.... Maybe that is jsut my ignorant bliss speaking...

I agree with the sense that if a kid wishes to decommit, from a verbal agreement made as a freshman or sophmore in HS, sure they should be able to decommit. I think there are definitely parents that make a huge deal when this happens, and I agree with you, it should be a so what moment.

But you have to be careful. A lot of parents of potential recruits may hear what you are saying and think you are suggesting a strategy built around a late junior or senior year decommit is a great approach. An approach of taking early commit because you can just decommit and move on, or upgrade your commit if something better comes along. This is what I believe MTR proposes as smart.

Trust me, this is a dicey approach. When you commit to School A, you disappear. Even coaches that were slightly interest scratch you off their list. You wait about 6 months and schools at your level will be done and out of money. You have probably gotten to the point where that school has filled the no money part of their roster. You decommit, you are not likely find the same level of deal.

Yeah, I hear ya. Every decision or even non-decision, comes with consequences. If we are blessed enough to be offered an opportunity, I will counsel my kid to consider seriously, all sides. And I want her word to mean something to her and to those she interacts with. But am I going to lose my salvation if she commits and then as she learns/grows, decides for whatever reasons X is better than Y? Probably not. Let's face it, is the school looking out for the best interests of the school or the kid? So I think if a kid commits, particularly given that they fall off the radar, it's a big deal and they better be sure that she really wants to play there, even if it is not her first choice. I think she needs to go into decisions like that understanding it is a commitment. But if in her decision process the criteria changes....oh well....not gonna lose any sleep over it. Integrity is important, very important, and I think this may well be her first major life decision, so we need to take it seriously. So I am in no way condoning bailing on verbals...but I can understand totally why and how it could happen.

Great dialog, appreciate all the discussion!!

[Sam]

So we are asking a kid who is two years away from being responsible enough to drive a car and two years removed from those joyous years before Aunt Flow came to visit every month... to commit......to give their word....to make a decision that will affect the remainder of her life.....yet the same parents whom are touting the early verbals likely wouldn't approve of their daughter deciding who she would marry at 14 years old......and why is that? One could (and should) apply the same decision making standards. What would these same parents say to the young man who asked for their 14 year old's hand in marriage when she turns 18? Would you tell her to go through with it after she found out the guy beat her....because she made a commitment? Because she gave her word and her word means something? A man's word means something.....a woman's....not so much.

We are allowing these coaches to do this......all for a parent's ego.

[softball65]

Not sure Sam, if your response was in response to mine or not but basically I agree with you. That's essentially been my position from the start. I think it's asking a lot of a 15 year old to hit the bulls eye 100% of the time, especially since we know that out of the box, these kids are simply trying to find their way and make as good a decision as they cane with the info available to them at the time (which could change). I want her commitment to mean something (meaning it wasn't some twitch, emotional reaction) and her word to mean something. But if she in the end, changes a decision like this...I'm not losing much sleep over it unless I feel like it's a move for the worst....

[jonriv]

So we are asking a kid who is two years away from being responsible enough to drive a car and two years removed from those joyous years before Aunt Flow came to visit every month... to commit......to give their word....to make a decision that will affect the remainder of her life.....yet the same parents whom are touting the early verbals likely wouldn't approve of their daughter deciding who she would marry at 14 years old......and why is that? One could (and should) apply the same decision making standards. What would these same parents say to the young man who asked for their 14 year old's hand in marriage when she turns 18? Would you tell her to go through with it after she found out the guy beat her....because she made a commitment? Because she gave her word and her word means something? A man's word means something.....a woman's....not so much.

We are allowing these coaches to do this......all for a parent's ego.

A very disturbing, yet seemingly accurate anology