I can't take it anymore

[PDad]

My comment was more to the parent saying a verbal is not a contract, more like a "pinky swear" as PDad pointed out.
I just don't agree with that way of thinking.

I guess that is the real question. Is it a contract or not?

Does not matter, not one bit. If your plan is to get recruited, you had better not back out on that first verbal, unless you have a specific commitment from another coach. Period end of story. We can say they are only 15, we can say it is not recognized. We can even theorize about alternative realities where verbals do not mean anything. Those are just science fiction.

Probably better working from a reality based on people that have been trough it. You announce your verbal, you are off the market. It is very difficult and very rare for someone who has announced a verbal to even have a conversation with an second coach. Coach's do not like doing this, because it can get their recruits targeted by everyone else.

It does happen, but it is so out there and rare. You are more likely to get struck by lightning then to get approached by a second coach after announcing a verbal.

I was actually thinking the other way- the college backing out(or offering less than initially promised) I agree with what you are saying and it is probably the reallity. Is that not the real danger that all the power & control is with the shools?

Coaches lose credibility if they renege on a verbal. A breach like that would put at risk their other verbals and make it more difficult for them to recruit in the future.

[jonriv]

My comment was more to the parent saying a verbal is not a contract, more like a "pinky swear" as PDad pointed out.
I just don't agree with that way of thinking.

I guess that is the real question. Is it a contract or not?

Does not matter, not one bit. If your plan is to get recruited, you had better not back out on that first verbal, unless you have a specific commitment from another coach. Period end of story. We can say they are only 15, we can say it is not recognized. We can even theorize about alternative realities where verbals do not mean anything. Those are just science fiction.

Probably better working from a reality based on people that have been trough it. You announce your verbal, you are off the market. It is very difficult and very rare for someone who has announced a verbal to even have a conversation with an second coach. Coach's do not like doing this, because it can get their recruits targeted by everyone else.

It does happen, but it is so out there and rare. You are more likely to get struck by lightning then to get approached by a second coach after announcing a verbal.

I was actually thinking the other way- the college backing out(or offering less than initially promised) I agree with what you are saying and it is probably the reallity. Is that not the real danger that all the power & control is with the shools?

Coaches lose credibility if they renege on a verbal. A breach like that would put at risk their other verbals and make it more difficult for them to recruit in the future.

Not sure how many parents/players are going to advertise that they only go a 1/4 scholarship instead of a 1/2

[PDad]

My comment was more to the parent saying a verbal is not a contract, more like a "pinky swear" as PDad pointed out.
I just don't agree with that way of thinking.

I guess that is the real question. Is it a contract or not?

Does not matter, not one bit. If your plan is to get recruited, you had better not back out on that first verbal, unless you have a specific commitment from another coach. Period end of story. We can say they are only 15, we can say it is not recognized. We can even theorize about alternative realities where verbals do not mean anything. Those are just science fiction.

Probably better working from a reality based on people that have been trough it. You announce your verbal, you are off the market. It is very difficult and very rare for someone who has announced a verbal to even have a conversation with an second coach. Coach's do not like doing this, because it can get their recruits targeted by everyone else.

It does happen, but it is so out there and rare. You are more likely to get struck by lightning then to get approached by a second coach after announcing a verbal.

I was actually thinking the other way- the college backing out(or offering less than initially promised) I agree with what you are saying and it is probably the reallity. Is that not the real danger that all the power & control is with the shools?

Coaches lose credibility if they renege on a verbal. A breach like that would put at risk their other verbals and make it more difficult for them to recruit in the future.

Not sure how many parents/players are going to advertise that they only go a 1/4 scholarship instead of a 1/2

They don't have to advertise their situation themselves. They will likely go to their TB coach about it. I expect word would travel without publicly embarassing the recruit.

[CheckWriter]

I have a senior and a sophomore in college.

I have now heard of numerous girls decommiting (jmo has posted a couple lately on UCS) in the last year or so. I think the attitudes are changing - as is evidenced by two posters considering a verbal a pinky swear. If this practice continues to become more common, which I think it will, then it is just a matter of time until the coaches will have to start recruiting more girls than available spots just to make sure that enough show up the fall of freshman year. Pretty soon it will be like football where players give "soft verbals".

You think early verballing is bad, wait until it is a free for all with the "second tier" players waiting in line for the spots the 5 star girls leave behind.

Glad my DDs went through the process when there was still a significant amount of integrity on both side of the process even though I still think the coaches held (and still do hold) the cards.

[Blind Squirrel]

An old school video of MTR going from the rule books to his conclusions about verbals without stopping to check reality in his path:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the ... ncaab.html

Leap of Faith Squirrel

[exD1dad]

My 1st job out of college was as a management trainee @ the most prestigious Jewish country club in America where Red Auerbach was a member. The only African American guest I ever saw there was Bill Russell who was there monthly with Red. Those guys would come in for matza ball soup for lunch & then proceed to get hammered all afternoon in the mens grill telling stories, smoking cigars & swearing like sailors. they were always nice to me, & all the other help as well, Which is generally true of "old wealth") unlike Maury Povich & the nuvo riche who thought their sh_t didn't stink

[softball65]

I have a senior and a sophomore in college.

I have now heard of numerous girls decommiting (jmo has posted a couple lately on UCS) in the last year or so. I think the attitudes are changing - as is evidenced by two posters considering a verbal a pinky swear. If this practice continues to become more common, which I think it will, then it is just a matter of time until the coaches will have to start recruiting more girls than available spots just to make sure that enough show up the fall of freshman year. Pretty soon it will be like football where players give "soft verbals".

You think early verballing is bad, wait until it is a free for all with the "second tier" players waiting in line for the spots the 5 star girls leave behind.

Glad my DDs went through the process when there was still a significant amount of integrity on both side of the process even though I still think the coaches held (and still do hold) the cards.

I'm not contesting your point about integrity because I;d want my kid to approach it similarly, i.e. with Integrity. But I also think that at the age of 14/15 and especially with girls, to get a big time Div 1, teir 1 school saying "we want you and come play for us", is really hard to turn away from, especially if her "perfect choice" has not gotten to the point of showing interest. I think that is my only point.

It's easy to talk about integrity but we are talking about kids making big decisions, in an environment where we know things are sure to change. I do believe that de-committing is not uncommon, but it isn't prevailing either.... I think the original poster suggested that the fix to all of this is to not recruit early (at least as I read it).... I don;t know what the answer is but a verbal commitment is just that, a verbal commitment. If it was legally binding, it'd be looked at as a contract and both parties would be held to it. I'm not condoning folks make disintegrous decision or the pinky swear as I originally put it, but was simply communicating a verbal is essentially equivalent to a pinky swear in it's horsepower. Frankly it means much more from the school than the perspective student because the school has far more to lose by backing out. I know of numerous girls that have verbally commited and have seen that through. And I know of a handful of girls who have decommitted. I think this is just part of the process and coaches aren't caught off guard by it. they have their kids ranked and they are talking with #2 until which time #1 is signed, I suspect.

Anyway this discussion seems to be focused around the integrity involved in a verbal commit and I am totally with you all there. But I can't put aside the fact that things change, kids grow up, minds change....and it's just part of the process. I have no first hand knowledge of this but my gues is that coaches of teams that are stiffed, are disappointed but ultimately supportive of a girl making a decision to go where ever she goes because afterall, it is about the kid.... Maybe that is jsut my ignorant bliss speaking...

[softballfan33]

So my question - how many mid major, D2 level scholarships are still available if a kid reaches her Junior year of high school and has opted to wait because she isn't sure where she wants to go yet or do yet? I understand the Big D1 stuff is off the table and so are a lot of the next tier schools, but talking showcase in summer between sophomore and Junior year into early fall, can these girls still find that money if they are willing to be flexible? Along the same lines, I know I have seen something posted somewhere but can't remember where - What is the average offer for position players.... Pitcher, catcher, MI, corners, OF, DH.

My kid is clueless about what she wants to do and where, so I am encouraging her to wait a while.... (edited to add this)

[ontheblack]

I know a kid playing, not sitting, for Missouri that didnt commit to them until after her Jr year. If the kid can play at that level, they will get an opportunity.

[AlwaysImprove]

I know a kid playing, not sitting, for Missouri that didnt commit to them until after her Jr year. If the kid can play at that level, they will get an opportunity.

I disagree. There are definitely kids that find opportunity after end of Junior year in major D1's. It has become pretty rare. Building a strategy around outlyers is not a great approach.

There is a rhythm to recruiting. It is actually pretty easy to pickup. It all plays out and is easily trackable on the list kept by UmassFan:

http://robocoach.websitetoolbox.com/post/Verbal-CommitmentsSignees-by-Team-2772456