What are the best catching camps out there?

[10GatorCoach]

looking to take dd to a really good catching camp next Summer. What are some of the better ones around the country????

[Turn two]

Nic,

Not a camp, but Roger Nichelson at Champion's Edge does a great job working with catchers. Money spent on lessons is well worth it.

As far as camps go, google New England Catchers Camps. They have a great skills videos that I have used for my daughter. Their camps are generally in the Northeast, haven't seen any in the Midwest.

[DunninLA]

looking to take dd to a really good catching camp next Summer. What are some of the better ones around the country????

I haven't looked into this for about two years, but at that time Dave Weaver of the New England Catching Camp was well respected, and has a very good DVD covering the basics. I think he mostly has baseball campers, but a fair number of female fastpitch too.

Speaking of which, I have been giving some thought to the possible difference in catching mechanics necessitated by the 60' softball base path vs. baseball 90'. I'm starting to be open to the idea of NOT blocking in the traditional way with a runner on first, but rather instead for the fastpitch catcher to scoop/pick the ball in the way they are exactly taught NOT to do in baseball. Here's my reasoning:

In baseball, blocking a ball squarely with the chest protector 80% (I made that up, but it's probably pretty close to accurate) of the time results in the runner going back to first base. With 78' (90' path - 12' lead) to travel post bounce-off-protector, the baseball catcher has plenty of time to pick up the ball and gun the runner down trying to advance.

In Fastpitch, however, blocking a ball squarely with the chest protector results in about 75% success rate (again, my educated GUESS) for the attentive/quick runner in advancing to the next base, so long as they commit and go as soon as the pitch hits the dirt. Whether it is blocked with the chest protector or not is irrelevant, because there just isn't enough time to pick up the ball off the dirt and then get a good runner in 2.9 seconds. The reason is that the Fastpitch runner has only about 48', vs. 78' in baseball, to run to reach the next base safely. This is a big difference, almost a full second, less time for the catcher in Fastpitch vs. Baseball to get the throw down to the bag. The only time the catcher can be successful is if the bounce off the chest protector lands within 24" and the catcher doesn't have to move to pick up the ball. That doesn't usually happen.

That being the case, has anyone ever actually figured out the odds, in practice, of nailing a runner in Fastpitch vs. Baseball after blocking a pitch off the chest protector in the standard way? Is it possible that not blocking, but instead picking/scooping the pitch, might result in fewer runners advancing from 1st to 2nd in Fastpitch?

Lastly, am I nuts for even cosidering scoop/pick?

[Fredegar]

Yes, scooping and throwing will get the ball to 2nd base faster than blocking it, finding it, and throwing it. But that's not the whole story. If catchers make a habit of scooping instead of blocking, there will be a LOT more passed balls (or wild pitches) that get by the catcher. And once it gets by the catcher, even medium-to-slow-footed runners will easily take the next base. Whereas, a good block will keep most runners (even speedy ones) at bay -- unless of course they were stealing on the pitch anyway.

It also depends on how well the catcher blocks. You said blocks don't usually leave the ball within 24". I disagree. It takes practice, but good catchers can indeed control the block, have it bounce back in front of them, softly, angled near home plate. Not all the time of course, but more often than not.

More importantly, for recruiting purposes, I think you'll find most coaches (at any level) would rather see a good block, than a good scoop.

[softballfan33]

Just like anything, I think both techniques have a place. My DD will change from one to the other depending on the situation. Players on 2 or 3 - straight block. Keeping the ball in front generally wins the day. Kid on first with no one else on - depending on number of outs, speed of runner (assuming we know) and pitch count - may opt to scoop and throw. Yes, she might miss it and the player gets to two, but that had at least a decent chance of happening anyway. But I do think that there is room for both.

However, I also agree, the more blocking a catcher does in practice with her pitcher, the better she gets at keeping the ball in close. That is why DD (and our other catchers) are required to wear not only a mask but full gear when catching at practice, lessons or warm up with our pitchers. It is another chance to work on their skills.

Since I have a DD who catches, I will comment that I think it is the one position on the field with the least amount of work put in in practice and catchers can have a huge impact on a team/game. We recently changed teams and our new coaches are better at working with the catchers, but they still get FAR less work than IF and OF. I have also found (as we have picked up on other teams through the years) that most coaches have NO idea how to instruct catchers on proper mechanics. I am so thankful that we had a great catching coach when DD #1 decided to start catching so that at least her mechanics were taught well to begin with. However, we would love a refresher course so if someone knows of a good coach between Austin and Dallas, or a camp, we would love to hear about it. Our coach, sadly, moved out of state.

[texasott]

since we are talking about blocking and keeping the ball has close has possible, what is a good chest protector? I have seen the schutt and easton don't care for them. i am looking for a chest protector with alot of that memory foam in it. my dd likes the allstar the best but iam always looking for something better. Lets say the catcher blocking is perfect.

[DunninLA]

Just like anything, I think both techniques have a place. My DD will change from one to the other depending on the situation. Players on 2 or 3 - straight block. Keeping the ball in front generally wins the day. Kid on first with no one else on - depending on number of outs, speed of runner (assuming we know) and pitch count - may opt to scoop and throw.

OK, good. So I'm not the only one who has thought about (attempted) scoop and throw with an average or faster runner on first. For me the # of outs is irrelevant... 0, 1, or 2, all that matter is which technique, on average, will be more successful in keeping the runner from advancing, or in nailing the runner who commits to the steal when she sees dirt fly.

So, how about this for a rule:

Runner(s) on, 3rd base unoccupied. Lead runner medium or fast. Technique: Scoop. All other situations, Technique: Block.

[Fredegar]

So, how about this for a rule:

Runner(s) on, 3rd base unoccupied. Lead runner medium or fast. Technique: Scoop. All other situations, Technique: Block.

To each his/her own. Scooping may indeed work for your DD. However, some coaches are gonna view a scoop attempt as lazy. So you risk turning off potential scouts. Just think how bad a failed scoop attempt appears, when it could have been blocked. And because there are bound to be more passed balls, it will ultimately result in more runners advancing, not fewer. Looks like we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[redhotcoach]

looking to take dd to a really good catching camp next Summer. What are some of the better ones around the country????

Www.catchingcamp.com

[DunninLA]

So, how about this for a rule:

Runner(s) on, 3rd base unoccupied. Lead runner medium or fast. Technique: Scoop. All other situations, Technique: Block.

Scooping may indeed work for your DD

Actually this isn't about my DD, it is a general question about odds, and the best odds at a pitch in the dirt with a fast/med lead runner, with nobody on 3rd.

And because there are bound to be more passed balls, it will ultimately result in more runners advancing, not fewer.

Well, that's my question. WOULD more fast/medium runners advance, on average, or fewer. How do you know?

Suppose for every 100 pitches that hit the dirt:

Scoop:
Successful scoop = 65%
Runners who attempt to immediately advance when they see dirt fly: 70%
Runners who attempt to advance only when the ball gets past the catcher: 30%
Fast/medium Runners who are thrown attempting to advance: 70%

Using the hypothetical numbers above:

35 runners successfully advance on the failed scoop as the ball goes to the backstop
13 runners advance, and 31 are thrown out, on a ball in the dirt that is successful scooped
21 runners wait when they see dirt, and on a scoop, stay at their bag.

Total scorecard on Scoop: 48 runners advance, 31 are thrown out, and 21 remain at their base.

My question is, since this is entirely hypothetical, what are the REAL numbers? Has anyone actually studied this?

The same hypothetical with the Block might look like this:

Block:
Successful block = 80%
Runners who attempt to immediately advance when they see dirt fly: 70%
Runners who attempt to advance only when the ball gets past the catcher: 30%
Fast/Medium Runners who are thrown out attempting to advance: 30%

Using the hypothetical Block numbers above:

20 runners successfully advance on the failed Block as the ball goes to the backstop
32 runners advance, and 14 are thrown out, attempting to advance on a ball in the dirt that is blocked
24 runners wait when they see dirt, and on a good block, stay at their bag.

Total scorecard on Block attempt: 52 runners advance, 14 are thrown out, and 24 remain at their base.