What a farce!! I selll insurance too!!

[smash]

At least with ASA you get states, regionals, western nationals or nationals and a few qualifiers along the way. The only problem with PGF, is if you are not at the very top, you pay all that money to register/insurance and might possibly only play 2 games for the season. If Triple Crown gets greedy and requires the same this could get out of control.

[Battle]

At least with ASA you get states, regionals, western nationals or nationals and a few qualifiers along the way. The only problem with PGF, is if you are not at the very top, you pay all that money to register/insurance and might possibly only play 2 games for the season. If Triple Crown gets greedy and requires the same this could get out of control.

On top of that, if I'm not mistaken, if you do qualify and earn a berth or receive an invitation in PGF...you can't enter another qualifier without giving up your berth. That's not just 18s either. So what good is the PGF insurance up to nationals for these teams?

[heyseed]

It's all about the $$$$. PGF is no different than ASA in regard to that. PGF is a good idea for Cali teams not wanting to travel like the rest of us. Wanting us to supplement the tourneys out there for the locals (the host PGF teams). Good deal if you can pull it off. With the changes to the invite rules and now this, how long till teams outside cali start reconcidering this route? $300++ for possibly two tourneys. I know all the Cali people come on here and bash this as ASA was the problem before, and maybe they were. But we are asking now three years into PGF....what will be different? Are you listening PGF? Haha right... Wake up people.

[AlwaysImprove]

It's all about the $$$$. PGF is no different than ASA in regard to that. PGF is a good idea for Cali teams not wanting to travel like the rest of us. Wanting us to supplement the tourneys out there for the locals (the host PGF teams). Good deal if you can pull it off. With the changes to the invite rules and now this, how long till teams outside cali start reconcidering this route? $300++ for possibly two tourneys. I know all the Cali people come on here and bash this as ASA was the problem before, and maybe they were. But we are asking now three years into PGF....what will be different? Are you listening PGF? Haha right... Wake up people.

I am not from California.

[AlwaysImprove]

My expectation, and it is a reasonable one, would be that ASA would remove the requirement of having ASA insurance and PGF would remove the requirement of having PGF insurance. Whichever organization gets the teams insurance business is the one that get's the insurance business.

Same thing I was screaming from the top of the mountains years ago, and everyone on this and other boards told me how wrong I was. Obtaining INS should be the responsibility of the teams, not the organization. HOWEVER, I believe the reason for insurance attached to registration is to protect the opponent and sanctioning body, not the team itself.

Their is no point in forcing customers to pay twice and receive nothing for it. ASA does not really win, PGF does not really win, and teams do not win. Are you saying that is the preferred answer?

Yeah, if you elect to partake in any function of any organization, you agree to play by their rules. I don't necessarily agree with those rules, but it it means that much to individuals, they should be more prudent in their selection of organization or functions.

The subject is insurance and who demanded what. On this subject, you noted that PGF went to ASA for help and didn't get it and that is to what I responded.

I suspect that PGF is much less of a threat than ASA considers. They are a group of ASA past customers that were not happy with how ASA did business in regards to national tournaments. They tried to work with ASA to get reasonable changes, but when that failed, they were forced under duress to create a solution.

ASA not listening to teams is exactly what got this all started. Do you think not listening to teams more is going to move things forward?

Whether folks like it or not, there is more to softball than SoCal and the college recruiting path. Also worth noting is that ASA is probably the most democratically based organization. I don't believe many understand that when it comes to the code and rules, the BOD or officers of ASA cannot simply make an unilateral decision to change either.

That means that you need to sell a position to the entire country and it is quite apparent that not every area enjoys the same level of participation and they will not vote to make a change that will have a negative effect on their teams and area.

As it is, the college player issue, which seems to be the single most issue, is still being argued and debated and changed each of the last three years. Personally, I think it is ridiculous concern that has minimal effect on the game. More of a head game than anything else.

I never thought the college players were the issue. A corrupt political system at ASA dominated by Johnson City TN and Midland TX that runs ASA as their own personal money grab is the root of the problem. How does that serve the whole country?

After loosing the top teams in the country at all age levels, I would think that ASA would start to wake up.

It would be no problem for ASA to accept insurance from PGF and vice versa. They are both bollinger policies with the same dollar amount. How can you possibly argue against that?

[heyseed]

AI...You could say the same corrupt political system is in place at PGF with their insurance as their own personal money grab! I can only say this due to your reasoning above..... How can you possibly argue with that?

[Battle]

AI...You could say the same corrupt political system is in place at PGF with their insurance as their own personal money grab! I can only say this due to your reasoning above..... How can you possibly argue with that?

That is exactly right. I might also add that ASA did NOT lose all the top teams. Just some attended PGF this year. You could also look at it as PGF could not grab all of the top teams in the country.

[AlwaysImprove]

AI...You could say the same corrupt political system is in place at PGF with their insurance as their own personal money grab! I can only say this due to your reasoning above..... How can you possibly argue with that?

I personally think PGF should accept ASA bollinger insurance. But I also understand with ASA have their insurance requirement, that other associations respond in-kind.

The corruption at ASA goes way deeper than insurance. Why have tournaments every year in Johnson City TN and Midland TX? They easy to travel too? Are they great tournament locations with nice weather?

If you live in Johnson City TN or Midland, TX then ASA may make sense. For the rest of the country, getting to and from LA is way easy. Ton's of flights.

[AlwaysImprove]

BTW, FWIW ASA is the only organization that has come on and said required insurance makes sense. This has little to do with PGF.

If I were running Triple Crown and learned that ASA was no longer accepting my insurance, I would quit accepting theirs. Same if I was in charge of NSA, USSSA or whatever. Wouldn't you?

[UmpSteve]

Face the facts, Youth sports is BIG BUSINESS. There is no doubt that money plays a part in all of this, but can you blame PGF? That is a large revenue stream there, and to not take it would be foolish business.

Does it suck for US, yes. But whatcha gonna do?

Not getting to stay in a hotel of my choosing sucks also, but those are the rules of the game if you want your team to stay in certain tourneys.

Kind of like the oil companies. When gas hits 5 bucks a gallon, you gonna start walking?

Ummm...yeah, you CAN blame PGF. They are going against ASA, the best in youth fastpitch. They make claims of ASA money grabs when in fact they are no different. IMO, they could just as easily accept ASA insurance as they did in the qualifiers last year but they decided not to and you are the one that is paying for it.

Sure you can blame PGF, if you are an ASA shill. PGF doing it one year, showed they were trying to be reasonable. ASA is the walled island, "our way or the highway" approach that got all of this started.

Speaking as one working with both, I have to disagree; your take on this one sounds like the PGF shill you claim for others shilling ASA.

ASA set this up first, as the requirement of the USOC for the NGB for softball. That program was in place, had the existing program, met everyone's needs. The new kid on the block has no such requirement, frankly didn't need anything new for coverage of the teams, players, coaches; anyone, other than the umpires, certainly NOT their primary concern. Yet, they added their program as a requirement; not anything any team needed.

As a business concession to the teams that might not enter their Qualifiers previously, they allowed them to not buy unnecessary and duplicative coverage for one year. That doesn't make ASA a "walled island" to continue the USOC mandate, when PGF now DOES require the duplicative coverage. Absolutely nothing in the ASA policy requires teams to buy anything else than before; even for teams to play PGF, then or now. That simply isn't true of the PGF program; it is a policy not previously required, or even needed, then or now. To claim otherwise simply isn't true. That fact isn't being an ASA shill; it is the absolute truth.