Fastpitch Discussions
From http://www.leaguelineup.com/dasaumpires/files/2012_ASA_Proposed_Rule_And_Code_Changes.one.pdf
Here are some that I noted as more relevant to Fastpitch. I have tried to represent them without any real statement of support, or non-support. If I missed something relevant it was not done on purpose. Keep in mind people are free to propose a lot of stuff, that does not mean anyone will agree with them.
Proposed Rule Changes
Item 8 Bat Knob - Knob if the bat must be at least 1.6 inches with no sharp edges. Not sure about the size of the RocketTech know, but it was pretty small, this may impact that bat.
Item 9 Bat Grip - Wording about what is allowed on the grip of the bat.
Item 12 Helmet Strap - Batting helmet straps must be worn properly. Sounds like some players are wearing chin straps behind their helmet.
Item 13/15 Coaches Shoes - Coaches must wear approved footwear. Haha, you lame-o coaches that try to wear sandals.
Item 14 Equipment modification - Clarifies what equipment modifications are not allowed.
"The characteristics of any approved equipment cannot be changed. Examples include icing, cooling or heating of any equipment. Warming devices for bats are NOT approved. In addition, approved bats shall not be rolled, shaved or modified to change their characteristics from that produced by the manufacturer."
Item 25 Illegal pitch no longer awards runners a base
"Otherwise the offensive manager has the option to take the result of the play or the illegal pitch is enforced by awarding a ball to the batter. (Delete advancing all runners one base) (Runners may advance at their own risk". Commentary indicates that the ball on the batter is one punishment and advancing the runners is a double penalty. This should probably be voted down.
Item 27 Allow crowhopping
Item 34 Live ball on fielder exiting the field When a fielder exits the field current rules say ball is dead, this allows the defense to make a play on remaining players on the field.
Item 35 Infield fly is still an Infield fly even when not called? "Add Note: If there is an infield fly situation, even though it was not initially called, it is still in effect."
Item 36 Safety base on returning to a base Allows offense or defense to use either base on a runner returning to first after a caught fly ball.
Item 37 No penalty shall help the offending team Umpire should not penalize a team when imposing the penalty would be an advantage to the offending team.
Proposed Code changes:
Item 2 JO Player Release Hard for me to follow this one, but it looks to add a definition for releasing a JO Player.
Item 3 All references to Junior Olympics should be changed to Youth -
Item 4 Remove fee schedules from Code
Item 5 Insurance increase per team from $8 to $9
Item 6/7/29 Move JO registration to 1 September
Item 8 Umpire insurance fees increase from $18 to $23
Item 9 12 Region proposal, includes map
Item 10 8 Region proposal, includes map
Item 11 Increase territories from 4 to 8
Item 12 Change makeup of Council Adds player rep from local association, JO commissioners from local association, UIC from local associations. These were regional level assignments in the past.
Item 14 Establishes a commissioner removal and appeal process
Item 15 Umpire background checks
Item 25 Code changes must have 60% vote
Item 26 Rule changes must have 60% vote
Item 28 Coaches must display background check card I though this was already in the code.
Item 31/32/44 Allow college players in 18U B teams I like how 33 ensures legal action against 'enforcers and ASA' if college players are not allowed in B division.
Item 34/35/36/38 Remove college players from all levels of 18U 34 says they have to do this as insurance will not cover them once they have played in college.
Item 37 Move to players age from 1 January to 1 September
Item 39 Allow championship rosters to be 20 plus pickups.
Item 40 Allow pickup players from the region, was association
Item 41/42 Allow combining of berths/tournaments and pickup players When an association does not have a team that wants to go to nationals, they can combine with another association.
Item 54 - A, B, C becomes Gold, Silver, Bronze Says it gives more prestige to classification rather than A & B.
Item 55 - Add 17U, 15U, 13U, 11U, 9U divisions of championship play
Item 68 - Allow host association to fill in with more than 8 teams Argues that those teams will just play somewhere else. I think this ignores the fact that Nationals should mean something and that loading a tournament with crappy teams makes the manager draw the most important part of the tournament.
Item 69 - Teams possessing an altered bat will be suspended for 2 years
Item 70 - Players possessing an altered bat will be suspended for 5 years
Item 74 - 18G Nationals pool play is drawn after bracket play I suspect this is so that pool play can be structured so that first round opponents in bracket play do not play each other in pool play.
Item 76 - Allows pool play draw after each individual team has finished pool play, currently this happens after all teams have finished pool play
Item 78 - Adds 10U Hall of fame tournament Personally, I think 10U teams are the age that should enjoy the HOF tournament the most as long as it is close to WCWS times. 10U is an age where they can miss a bit of school and it does not matter, and they would love watching the WCWS games.
Item 80 - Allow qualified Gold teams to play in qualifiers
Item 84 - Changes Easter/Southern/Northern/Western National Championship Finals to Territory National Championship finals
Item 89 - Remove Territory champions from receiving a following year berth At younger ages this is the main incentive for attending Western Nationals.
Item 90 - Top 8 18 gold teams receive following year berths
Item 91 - Expand 18 gold to 72 teams, removes territory berths and adds 3 runner up berths and 16 regional berths
Item 92 - Change how 18 gold berths are allocated, and expands 18 gold to 72 teams
Item 93 - Remove 18 gold territory berths
Here are some that I noted as more relevant to Fastpitch. I have tried to represent them without any real statement of support, or non-support. If I missed something relevant it was not done on purpose. Keep in mind people are free to propose a lot of stuff, that does not mean anyone will agree with them.
Proposed Rule Changes
Item 8 Bat Knob - Knob if the bat must be at least 1.6 inches with no sharp edges. Not sure about the size of the RocketTech know, but it was pretty small, this may impact that bat.
Item 9 Bat Grip - Wording about what is allowed on the grip of the bat.
Item 12 Helmet Strap - Batting helmet straps must be worn properly. Sounds like some players are wearing chin straps behind their helmet.
Item 13/15 Coaches Shoes - Coaches must wear approved footwear. Haha, you lame-o coaches that try to wear sandals.
Item 14 Equipment modification - Clarifies what equipment modifications are not allowed.
"The characteristics of any approved equipment cannot be changed. Examples include icing, cooling or heating of any equipment. Warming devices for bats are NOT approved. In addition, approved bats shall not be rolled, shaved or modified to change their characteristics from that produced by the manufacturer."
Item 25 Illegal pitch no longer awards runners a base
"Otherwise the offensive manager has the option to take the result of the play or the illegal pitch is enforced by awarding a ball to the batter. (Delete advancing all runners one base) (Runners may advance at their own risk". Commentary indicates that the ball on the batter is one punishment and advancing the runners is a double penalty. This should probably be voted down.
Item 27 Allow crowhopping
Item 34 Live ball on fielder exiting the field When a fielder exits the field current rules say ball is dead, this allows the defense to make a play on remaining players on the field.
Item 35 Infield fly is still an Infield fly even when not called? "Add Note: If there is an infield fly situation, even though it was not initially called, it is still in effect."
Item 36 Safety base on returning to a base Allows offense or defense to use either base on a runner returning to first after a caught fly ball.
Item 37 No penalty shall help the offending team Umpire should not penalize a team when imposing the penalty would be an advantage to the offending team.
Proposed Code changes:
Item 2 JO Player Release Hard for me to follow this one, but it looks to add a definition for releasing a JO Player.
Item 3 All references to Junior Olympics should be changed to Youth -
Item 4 Remove fee schedules from Code
Item 5 Insurance increase per team from $8 to $9
Item 6/7/29 Move JO registration to 1 September
Item 8 Umpire insurance fees increase from $18 to $23
Item 9 12 Region proposal, includes map
Item 10 8 Region proposal, includes map
Item 11 Increase territories from 4 to 8
Item 12 Change makeup of Council Adds player rep from local association, JO commissioners from local association, UIC from local associations. These were regional level assignments in the past.
Item 14 Establishes a commissioner removal and appeal process
Item 15 Umpire background checks
Item 25 Code changes must have 60% vote
Item 26 Rule changes must have 60% vote
Item 28 Coaches must display background check card I though this was already in the code.
Item 31/32/44 Allow college players in 18U B teams I like how 33 ensures legal action against 'enforcers and ASA' if college players are not allowed in B division.
Item 34/35/36/38 Remove college players from all levels of 18U 34 says they have to do this as insurance will not cover them once they have played in college.
Item 37 Move to players age from 1 January to 1 September
Item 39 Allow championship rosters to be 20 plus pickups.
Item 40 Allow pickup players from the region, was association
Item 41/42 Allow combining of berths/tournaments and pickup players When an association does not have a team that wants to go to nationals, they can combine with another association.
Item 54 - A, B, C becomes Gold, Silver, Bronze Says it gives more prestige to classification rather than A & B.
Item 55 - Add 17U, 15U, 13U, 11U, 9U divisions of championship play
Item 68 - Allow host association to fill in with more than 8 teams Argues that those teams will just play somewhere else. I think this ignores the fact that Nationals should mean something and that loading a tournament with crappy teams makes the manager draw the most important part of the tournament.
Item 69 - Teams possessing an altered bat will be suspended for 2 years
Item 70 - Players possessing an altered bat will be suspended for 5 years
Item 74 - 18G Nationals pool play is drawn after bracket play I suspect this is so that pool play can be structured so that first round opponents in bracket play do not play each other in pool play.
Item 76 - Allows pool play draw after each individual team has finished pool play, currently this happens after all teams have finished pool play
Item 78 - Adds 10U Hall of fame tournament Personally, I think 10U teams are the age that should enjoy the HOF tournament the most as long as it is close to WCWS times. 10U is an age where they can miss a bit of school and it does not matter, and they would love watching the WCWS games.
Item 80 - Allow qualified Gold teams to play in qualifiers
Item 84 - Changes Easter/Southern/Northern/Western National Championship Finals to Territory National Championship finals
Item 89 - Remove Territory champions from receiving a following year berth At younger ages this is the main incentive for attending Western Nationals.
Item 90 - Top 8 18 gold teams receive following year berths
Item 91 - Expand 18 gold to 72 teams, removes territory berths and adds 3 runner up berths and 16 regional berths
Item 92 - Change how 18 gold berths are allocated, and expands 18 gold to 72 teams
Item 93 - Remove 18 gold territory berths
-
AlwaysImprove - Premium Member
- Posts: 1723
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:27 am
AlwaysImprove wrote:
Item 25 Illegal pitch no longer awards runners a base
"Otherwise the offensive manager has the option to take the result of the play or the illegal pitch is enforced by awarding a ball to the batter. (Delete advancing all runners one base) (Runners may advance at their own risk". Commentary indicates that the ball on the batter is one punishment and advancing the runners is a double penalty. This should probably be voted down.
Disagree. This will actually get more IPs called and force the pitchers to do it right.
Item 27 Allow crowhopping
No, it doesn't. It changes the womens & JO game to match the men's by allowing leaping as long as the toe of the pivot foot is pointing down. This change also, I believe inadvertantly, elmiminates the pitching lane. I would anticipate an admendment to return the pitching lane in an attempt to keep the rest of the proposal live.
Item 34 Live ball on fielder exiting the field When a fielder exits the field current rules say ball is dead, this allows the defense to make a play on remaining players on the field.
This is incorrect. The change is to keep the ball live when a BR leaves the field of play. This would have the rule concur with that for the runner leaving the field of play.
Item 35 Infield fly is still an Infield fly even when not called? "Add Note: If there is an infield fly situation, even though it was not initially called, it is still in effect."
Nothing new here, it has always been this way, someone just wants to put it to paper
Item 36 Safety base on returning to a base Allows offense or defense to use either base on a runner returning to first after a caught fly ball.
Redundant. Rule already reads this way.
- MTR
- Posts: 2317
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:21 am
I think the idea of a new age group for college players makes sense (20U in the proposals). There should be consistency in eligibility for 18U Championships. It makes no sense for 18A to be different than Gold or B.
- Daddylawman
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 11:42 am
- Location: Marietta, GA
Item 54 - A, B, C becomes Gold, Silver, Bronze Says it gives more prestige to classification rather than A & B.
Then every 18 team can be a gold team
-
ontheblack - Posts: 2355
- Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:27 pm
So does this mean 43' is off the table at 14U?
- Fuddrules
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:11 pm
I can only speak from my experience. Having runners be awarded a base was the main reason for always working on pitching legally. Giving up a ball on a batter does not really mean that much.
I agree, Umpires will be more open to calling IP, especially bases loaded tied game situations. I just do not think it is clear that IP's goes up or down with this change.
Yes leaping, not crowhopping, my bad. Still a major advantage to pitchers.
For me, addition of 20U, I am not so certain about it. At that age there is not really much of a difference between a 19 year old and a 23 year old. These teams are already small and struggle to get players. Keeping the age bracket wider allows them to draw from a larger pool.
Yes, Item 34 is about when the BR leaves the field. Thanks for the correction.
On the infield fly. Personally, I do not think having an Infield fly be an Infield fly even when not called is a good idea. One day some savvy manager is going to teach his 18 year old team to drop that not called infield fly, then turn two. The runners are going to crap, realize they are out and head for the dugout. Then it is on, likely somebody going to call the police. The main problem is infield fly is a judgement call on what is a routine catch. Defense really deserves that umpires judgment before the catch is made. It seems reasonable to the defense that no call means umpire judged it not routine. The number of times umpires no call infield fly is way to high. I would say this happens way more than obstruction/interference issues.
I agree, Umpires will be more open to calling IP, especially bases loaded tied game situations. I just do not think it is clear that IP's goes up or down with this change.
Yes leaping, not crowhopping, my bad. Still a major advantage to pitchers.
For me, addition of 20U, I am not so certain about it. At that age there is not really much of a difference between a 19 year old and a 23 year old. These teams are already small and struggle to get players. Keeping the age bracket wider allows them to draw from a larger pool.
Yes, Item 34 is about when the BR leaves the field. Thanks for the correction.
On the infield fly. Personally, I do not think having an Infield fly be an Infield fly even when not called is a good idea. One day some savvy manager is going to teach his 18 year old team to drop that not called infield fly, then turn two. The runners are going to crap, realize they are out and head for the dugout. Then it is on, likely somebody going to call the police. The main problem is infield fly is a judgement call on what is a routine catch. Defense really deserves that umpires judgment before the catch is made. It seems reasonable to the defense that no call means umpire judged it not routine. The number of times umpires no call infield fly is way to high. I would say this happens way more than obstruction/interference issues.
-
AlwaysImprove - Premium Member
- Posts: 1723
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:27 am
MTR wrote:Disagree. This will actually get more IPs called and force the pitchers to do it right.
Out here, we've had a little issue with umpires calling IPs in 8u games. 8u.
The currently penalty for IPs is not in line with the actual offense. If I were an umpire, I'd be reluctant to call them in youth games at all, depending on how bad it was, solely because of the severity of the penalty.
- Momo's Dad
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:12 pm
If item 8 Bat Knob is passed, will that make the Axe bat illegal?
-
SoCalASABlue - Posts: 394
- Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:02 pm
SoCalASABlue wrote:If item 8 Bat Knob is passed, will that make the Axe bat illegal?
Not sure. The wording is not very clear on this item. If I were Baden, RocketTech or Tator grips I would read this one closely and talk to someone involved.
-
AlwaysImprove - Premium Member
- Posts: 1723
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:27 am
Main Menu
User Menu
Login
