The Strike Zone

[jofus]

If at Angel stadium I can call balls and strikes from 200' down the left field line, I can certainly do it from the dugout of a softball field.

[narent]

If at Angel stadium I can call balls and strikes from 200' down the left field line, I can certainly do it from the dugout of a softball field.

Actually, you would have a better angle from 200' down the line than you would from the dugout and here's why. There are two dimentions to every pitch -- heighth (high/low) and width (inside/outside) You have to think of each of these dimentions represented by an inaginary line -- the highth is represented by a verticle line and the width is represented by a horizontal. Both lines form a cross over home plate and their intersection is smack dab in the middle of the strike zone.

The best view of this cross would be from anywhere along a straight line dwawn from the pitcher through the center of the cross. Your view gets distorted as you deviate from this "best line of sight" and you are unable to ascertain changes in the two dimentions. Deviations to the left or right of this line limit your ability to tell the difference between inside/outside and deviations up or down limit your ability to tell the difference between high/low.

The worst possible angles for viewing the pitch location dimentions would be along the "worst lines of sight" which are simply the lines that form the cross. The worst line of sight for the high/low line would extend straight up into the sky and straight down into the ground (this, incidently is the BEST line of site to determine inside/outside. That's why a lot of domed stadiums hang a camera right on this line to show inside/outside.) Similarly, the worst line of sight for the left/right line would often extend, depending on the facility through the end of both dugouts, often where a coach places his bucket. The only indication you have of where the pitch ended up is by looking at the catcher's mitt, but variables such as glove movement after the catch and where she is setting up makes this an educated guess at best.

To prove my point, have your pitcher throw 20 pitches to an empty backstop. You sit where you normally would on your bucket and have someone else stand directly behind the backstop and record inside/strike/outside. See how many you get right. Next go to one of the foul poles and do the same thing. Lastly, go behind the backstop and do the same thing. If you could call them as accurately from the bucket as you could from the backstop, I'll take my hat off to you.

[weekend4trvl]

MTR wrote "Great, a subject that gets beat to hell about four times a year. Oh, what the hell!

And just where do you see this varience? From the stands, watching TV, standing along the fence."

The only softball I've ever seen on T.V is major college and the strike zone appears to be very tight. I guess we figured out that if we let those pitchers live 6" off the plate every game would end in a scoreless tie.

[anonlooker]

I understand that come game time, both hitters and pitchers make adjustments based on what the PU is calling. What I don't understand is why there is a variance in the first place?

Yes, I am quoting myself, to illustrate a point... as in bold above. I understand... etc etc.

This thread wasn't intended to stir up so much anger and animosity (although most threads on the Bucket seem to be doing that lately), but rather get some viewpoints on how different participants in the game feel about the situation. Wasn't meant to come across as whining.

Btw, my kid is pitches and hits, so sees both sides of it, and tends to adjust pretty well.

I found the comparison of travel ball kids to Bustos particularly enlightened... kind of like comparing travel ball umps to Rich Garcia. Yeah, good observation.

It seems the one viewpoint we can surmise thus far is that umpires get very angry if anyone so much as asks about the application of the strike zone parameters.

[Skarp]

[narent]

And just where do you see this varience? From the stands, watching TV, standing along the fence."

Usually when you watch either baseball or softball on TV, the camera angle is behind the pitcher, a little off center. The reason they do this is to give you the best possible view of the strike zone that they can. If the dugout camera had a better view, then they would put the camera there.

My point is that I don't feel confident enough in my ability to tell the difference between a ball just off the plate and a strike that caught to corner that I would start making a fool of myself and argue balls and strikes from the worst possible angle.

Are there bad blues out there? Of course. I've run into them several times. I've been behind the backstop and witnessed some terrible calls. I've also been behind the plate and heard our coach get upset because what he thought was a strike was actually a ball well off the plate.

Ok... i've officially "unbunched" my panties. Anyone want 'em? If not they're going to the burn pile

[MTR]

Usually when you watch either baseball or softball on TV, the camera angle is behind the pitcher, a little off center. The reason they do this is to give you the best possible view of the strike zone that they can. If the dugout camera had a better view, then they would put the camera there.

Sounds good, but the reason the camera is off-center is so the pitcher will not obstruct the view of the batter and catcher.

I've been behind the backstop and witnessed some terrible calls. I've also been behind the plate and heard our coach get upset because what he thought was a strike was actually a ball well off the plate.

While that is a better view than the dugout or stands, you still don't have a comparable view to that of the umpire. You are not seeing where that ball passes the front of the plate and you certainly cannot rely on following the catcher's glove. Even the catcher doesn't see where the ball passes as well as the umpire because they must concentrate on the ball, not the strike zone.

However, it is not unusual and encouraged for the umpires to widen the strike zone about the diameter of the ball, while bringing it down and up about the same dimension and softening the corners (of the zone, not the plate).

[Hawk17]

As I tell my players, including my DD, deal with it! Yeah, I don't always agree, but I am not behind the plate.

Until we have a little computer behind the plate calling balls and strikes, then I guess we just have to play on. It is part of the game. They are human, they call them how they see them, most of them do a great job.... get over it.

[MTR]

Until we have a little computer behind the plate calling balls and strikes, then I guess we just have to play on. It is part of the game. They are human, they call them how they see them, most of them do a great job.... get over it.

You have no idea how many umpires would LOVE to have balls and strikes called by a computer. It would be welcomed by the umpires and despised by the players and coaches.

Go ahead and mechanizeit, fine by us. Bring it on!

[Sam]

Until we have a little computer behind the plate calling balls and strikes, then I guess we just have to play on. It is part of the game. They are human, they call them how they see them, most of them do a great job.... get over it.

You have no idea how many umpires would LOVE to have balls and strikes called by a computer. It would be welcomed by the umpires and despised by the players and coaches.

Go ahead and mechanizeit, fine by us. Bring it on!

Uhh.....the coaches would LOVE to have a consistent strike zone called each game....a computer would do that....be careful what YOU wish for, Mike. Its always funny listening to you THREATEN to call what is actually in the rule book. Just do it for one year....as an experiment....and come back on here and report about your findings....you're an analytical guy....it'll be like SuperSize Me.