ASA being sued

[MTR]

Can you say "FRIVOLOUS", if the court system allows this then every kid and their parent will sue every sports organization they played in. It's part of the game and we all know it. Maybe we will have to start signing injury waivers upon making a TB team.

Maybe they can go back and use the ASA insurance to get the medical treatment she has received.

Frivolous? Really? The can point to at least one other national softball organization that has maximum pitch counts. They can certainly claim that ASA should know about the dangers of overuse injuries and that overuse injuries to pitchers account for nearly all the overuse injuries in the sport. They can claim that all the ASA certified coaches told them that girls softball is different than boys baseball....girls can pitch an unlimited number of innings.

Maybe ASA will do something about it. Premier could take the lead here. These kids get to college and their arms are junk....if they make it that long.

The parents won't do it voluntarily and the coaches won't limit the pitchers' innings unilaterally.

I hope these people win their case.

There is only one question here. Who placed the player in the line-up and in the circle?

It wasn't ASA? Hell, ASA doesn't even require anyone to ever throw the ball unless they elect to do so voluntarily. Just like every registration is voluntary and these parents signed off on the roster. Maybe ASA should file a countersuit for child support.

As is often the case, Socialist Sam cannot see the forest from the trees.

[Sftbll4ever]

What they should do is make "dead periods." My daughter does not pick up a softball from Aug to September and takes 4-5 weeks off at Christmas. It is even a team rule and parents fight me on it year after year. Parents control what happens to their kids so take your own precautions.

My dd usually takes 3-5 weeks off from Aug to September too. She will not touch a ball for 2 weeks and then maybe 1 pitching lesson a week for the rest of the time. Her pitching coach also is off for 2 weeks herself and really demands my dd take the time off. At Christmas, she will take 3 weeks off again.

This is the first time in forever that she has not had an injury. She is going to personal training twice a week now and because the group she is with is softball players, he tailors it to the girls. He also has the pitchers do some different stretches with resistance bands to help their shoulders.

Our coach is pretty awsome too. He always shares time with the pitchers. No over use.

[PDad]

An orthopedist told us overhand athletes (baseball, softball, volleyball, water polo) shouldn't lift any weights over their heads (e.g. military press) due to the risk of shoulder injury. He is the team doctor for a couple SoCal colleges.

Regardless of his employment credentials, his advice should've been summarily dismissed.

While I do believe that heavy overhead lifts during the season would be counter-productive and potentially dangerous for those athletes, light-to-moderate resistance might very well be rather beneficial. Lifting heavier in the off-season, however, would pay dividends later, as the stronger muscle tissue which resulted would actually be less susceptible to injury during the primary activity.

What are your qualifications to make these assertions?

Which muscles do you feel need to be exercised by lifting weights over the head? What role(s) do they play in these types of athletes?

Muscles are only one component of the shoulder. His concern is with damaging the other structural components by doing an exercise that is not necessary.

[SoftballSoccerDad]

There's a risk-reward scenario for every movement under the sun, but the ortho you consulted seems to have led you to believe that damage would occur and that there were no benefits to be gained from overhead pressing-type exercises.

You're more than welcome to trade on outdated information, but I'd suggest getting a second opinion from outside his practice.

[SKBC1234]

It's likely the girl would have a much stronger case if she sued her father.

Hilarious!!!!!! but true!!! People are truly amazing!!!

[Sam]

So, they aren't suing the HS or the travel coaches?

My DD had a shoulder injury, but who is to say that it wasn't caused by a combination of poor posture, poor nutrition, maturity, and a lot of gymnastics? I don't get the suing of the association. People are saying that the dad was the driving force behind the pitcher.

Sam - I know your daughter had shoulder problems. I also know that one of the times was when she dove and made a great catch against us in Las Vegas but separated her shoulder. She had previously had issues with her shoulder because of pitching. Was her issues overuse??

Yes, JMO, her issues with the pitching shoulder were diagnosed as an impingement caused by overuse in her pitching shoulder. My fault and nobody else's. I just hope that the associations can learn from those of us who did approve, encourage, accept the overuse of our daughters as pitchers.

Limiting innings would cause teams to carry more pitchers and reduce the number of teams. The teams left would consist of the highest quality players and hopefully the highest quality of coaches.

The parents won't do it on their own and the associations won't do anything until they are sued. I hope that Premier will consider being a frontrunner in helping to protect these young ladies from their own parents and their coaches. I know that Premier has the girls' best interest at heart.

[Sam]

Can you say "FRIVOLOUS", if the court system allows this then every kid and their parent will sue every sports organization they played in. It's part of the game and we all know it. Maybe we will have to start signing injury waivers upon making a TB team.

Maybe they can go back and use the ASA insurance to get the medical treatment she has received.

Frivolous? Really? The can point to at least one other national softball organization that has maximum pitch counts. They can certainly claim that ASA should know about the dangers of overuse injuries and that overuse injuries to pitchers account for nearly all the overuse injuries in the sport. They can claim that all the ASA certified coaches told them that girls softball is different than boys baseball....girls can pitch an unlimited number of innings.

Maybe ASA will do something about it. Premier could take the lead here. These kids get to college and their arms are junk....if they make it that long.

The parents won't do it voluntarily and the coaches won't limit the pitchers' innings unilaterally.

I hope these people win their case.

There is only one question here. Who placed the player in the line-up and in the circle?

It wasn't ASA? Hell, ASA doesn't even require anyone to ever throw the ball unless they elect to do so voluntarily. Just like every registration is voluntary and these parents signed off on the roster. Maybe ASA should file a countersuit for child support.

As is often the case, Socialist Sam cannot see the forest from the trees.

Who trained and certified the coach? Did the training include guidance on overuse of pitchers? Recommendations for maximum innings in a day, weekend, week?

I'm not a socialist, but I'm not an anarchist either.

[Sam]

Can you say "FRIVOLOUS", if the court system allows this then every kid and their parent will sue every sports organization they played in. It's part of the game and we all know it. Maybe we will have to start signing injury waivers upon making a TB team.

Maybe they can go back and use the ASA insurance to get the medical treatment she has received.

Frivolous? Really? The can point to at least one other national softball organization that has maximum pitch counts. They can certainly claim that ASA should know about the dangers of overuse injuries and that overuse injuries to pitchers account for nearly all the overuse injuries in the sport. They can claim that all the ASA certified coaches told them that girls softball is different than boys baseball....girls can pitch an unlimited number of innings.

Maybe ASA will do something about it. Premier could take the lead here. These kids get to college and their arms are junk....if they make it that long.

The parents won't do it voluntarily and the coaches won't limit the pitchers' innings unilaterally.

I hope these people win their case.

These softball organizations could also point to numerous athletes, like myself, that pitched every weekend, HS, TB, heck I even pitched 5 full 7 inning games in one day with the 5th game going 13 innings and NEVER had any injuries. Maybe they should blame the instructors that obviously didn't teach them very good mechanics too. smh

This is ridiculous and I'm pretty much on the players side 99.9% of the time. Ridiculous! I hope they spend tons of money to get told the same thing. "You are ridiculous."

BTW, I didn't have a pitching coach until 16 so basically, my Dad said well, we'll just throw 200 pitches a day (we didn't know any better) and I did that pretty much from 12 until college. EVERY player is different. You cannot say pitching that much hurts all of these kids because for every case of one being hurt, you have ten cases of not being hurt...

What they should do is make "dead periods." My daughter does not pick up a softball from Aug to September and takes 4-5 weeks off at Christmas. It is even a team rule and parents fight me on it year after year. Parents control what happens to their kids so take your own precautions.

Well, there are Nolan Ryans and Mark Prior/Stephen Strasburgs. I coach college pitchers, dear, and they can't throw more than a game a day any more. It hurts.

Maybe you can answer some questions for me....Why would MLB teams put their pitchers on pitch counts. Do MLB teams throw the same starting pitcher in back to back games on the same day? College baseball teams?

Do you know how many players have suffered injuries from adhering to mandated pitch counts?

Just asking.

[sftblldud]

Can you say "FRIVOLOUS", if the court system allows this then every kid and their parent will sue every sports organization they played in. It's part of the game and we all know it. Maybe we will have to start signing injury waivers upon making a TB team.

Maybe they can go back and use the ASA insurance to get the medical treatment she has received.

Frivolous? Really? The can point to at least one other national softball organization that has maximum pitch counts. They can certainly claim that ASA should know about the dangers of overuse injuries and that overuse injuries to pitchers account for nearly all the overuse injuries in the sport. They can claim that all the ASA certified coaches told them that girls softball is different than boys baseball....girls can pitch an unlimited number of innings.

Maybe ASA will do something about it. Premier could take the lead here. These kids get to college and their arms are junk....if they make it that long.

The parents won't do it voluntarily and the coaches won't limit the pitchers' innings unilaterally.

I hope these people win their case.

That's All we need as a softball family is more PITCHER PARENTS. We all know what I am talking about, don't we? That's what this case would do, would make more PITCHER PARENTS. I personally don't see that many arm problems to make change.

PITCHER PARENTS need their own section at these softball games, that way they can all see how they act.

[anonlooker]

Not only will you get more PITCHER PARENTS, you will get more pitchers. A lot more pitchers.

I understand limiting innings pitched per day, but what about practice time? That has to figure significantly into overuse and repetitive motion injuries. Can you regulate that?

If a kid can only pitch 7 innings per day, and you have tournaments with 5 loser bracket games in a day, teams will have to carry 5 or more pitchers. That's probably about double what most teams have now. The demand for pitchers, already at a premium, will skyrocket.

In order to become an effective pitcher, with less game time available, kids will have to train even more than they already do.

Good pitching instructors will be swamped. The door will be open for marginally qualified and unscrupulous instructors, leading to poor training, poor mechanics, and increased incidence of injury.

You would also increase the risk of injury from batted balls. Untrained pitchers will make more mistakes, leading to more come backers, etc.

Additionally, ASA can mandate anything they want, but in SoCal and other parts of the country, there is very little ASA ball being played.

Finally, I find it hard to believe LL pitchers don't get injuries. Who limits practice time, or innings during non-LL play? Don't these kids also play travel ball? Does LL govern every tournamant in the country? Did Henry Owen get as good as he is pitching one game twice a week, and practicing for 20 minutes a day? I don't know, but I'm inclined to doubt it.

Limiting innings might be a start, but it's not a complete solution. And doesn't even begin to address what the college coaches are looking for from prospective pitchers. As long as that carrot is being dangled, and only the best are getting full rides, kids (and their parents) will continue to overdo it. And under this plan, there will be a lot more of them.

Feel free to let me know what I'm missing here.