retroactive infield fly rule

[Iluvblue]

Runners on 1st and 2nd this week in LV, one out with a pop up to third. No infield fly is called at all, ball is picked up and they fire to third and step on bag. Throw ball back to pitcher and runners then advanced. So you have bases loaded.

Im a little confused as how you have bases loaded and start asking how the heck is this not an infield fly.

Umps get together and talk about it, they leave runners at 2nd and 3rd and call out the batter. Im kind of like WTF is that. He says the runners can advance on their own risk and pops off to me "how long you been playing ball." He tells me they can call INF whenever they want. HUH????? You mean you can call INF after the play is over, after 15 secs of confusion, and after the blues get together to confer about thew play? Since no INF was ever called, our girls assumed the play was a simple force out at third base... but apparently the fact the no umpire actually called an infield fly seemed to not matter to them.

Im amazed at how much I continue to learn each week by some of these fine umpires.

[Comp]

First, for it to be an infield fly the ball has to be catchable with normal effort. How did the ball end up on the ground if it was a pop fly to 3rd base?

And yes, they can call it later if they judged it to actually be an IFF.

[AlwaysImprove]

First, for it to be an infield fly the ball has to be catchable with normal effort. How did the ball end up on the ground if it was a pop fly to 3rd base?

And yes, they can call it later if they judged it to actually be an IFF.

Maybe they can, but it is bush to do so. It is also very confusing, and directly counteracts the purpose and intent of IFF. IFF is intended to to prevent infielders from intentionally dropping pop-ups. Calling it after the fact is dufus.

So many umps do not call IFF while the ball is in the air. Smart coaches should teach their kids at 16U/18g levels, if you do not hear IFF called, drop the pop-up and turn two. Then watch the umps step all over themselves as they try to clean up the mess.

[MTR]

Runners on 1st and 2nd this week in LV, one out with a pop up to third. No infield fly is called at all, ball is picked up and they fire to third and step on bag. Throw ball back to pitcher and runners then advanced. So you have bases loaded.

Im a little confused as how you have bases loaded and start asking how the heck is this not an infield fly.

Umps get together and talk about it, they leave runners at 2nd and 3rd and call out the batter. Im kind of like WTF is that. He says the runners can advance on their own risk and pops off to me "how long you been playing ball." He tells me they can call INF whenever they want. HUH????? You mean you can call INF after the play is over, after 15 secs of confusion, and after the blues get together to confer about thew play? Since no INF was ever called, our girls assumed the play was a simple force out at third base... but apparently the fact the no umpire actually called an infield fly seemed to not matter to them.

Im amazed at how much I continue to learn each week by some of these fine umpires.

The umpires took the correct and prescribed action. Did they miss the initial call? Yep, they did and then they got it right.

Is your argument that the umpires shouldn't worry about getting the call correct? If you were on offense and this play occurred, how would you react if the D turned a triple play and the umpire said, "oops, sorry, we didn't call it in a timely fashion, so the triple play counts"?

Yeah, I'm sure you would just say, "Oh, okay. Thanks" and then go sit down and watch the rest of the game in silence.

[MTR]

First, for it to be an infield fly the ball has to be catchable with normal effort. How did the ball end up on the ground if it was a pop fly to 3rd base?

And yes, they can call it later if they judged it to actually be an IFF.

Maybe they can, but it is bush to do so. It is also very confusing, and directly counteracts the purpose and intent of IFF. IFF is intended to to prevent infielders from intentionally dropping pop-ups. Calling it after the fact is dufus.

So many umps do not call IFF while the ball is in the air. Smart coaches should teach their kids at 16U/18g levels, if you do not hear IFF called, drop the pop-up and turn two. Then watch the umps step all over themselves as they try to clean up the mess.

So, what games to you umpire?

[Bretman]

Yes, as you've already been told, an Infield Fly Rule may be called after the fact. That assumes that all of the requirements for the IFR were actually in place at the time the ball was batted into play. (I'm still having a hard time picturing how a pop up to third that could have been easily caught wound up on the ground, and how the ball subsequently had to be "fired to third" if it was hit to third to begin with.)

But when a delayed call by the umpires puts either team at a disadvantage, any placment of runners after the call should seek to replicate the most likely outcome that would have been expected had the call been made in a timely manner. On this play, I can't help but wonder...

- If the IFR had been called, would the runners have even been advancing?

- Would the defense go for a force play at third, when no force outs would be available to them?

- Might the defense have tried to tag out the runner advancing to third, had they not already assumed her to be out on the force play?

If the IFR initially isn't called and the defense gains additional outs as a result, we fix that. Is not the opposite true? If the delayed call caused the defense to make unneccesay plays, or to not play on runners assumed to be already out, why would that not also be fixed?

I can see enforcing the IFR after the fact, but returning the runners to first and second base as being an equitable solution. That may have been the most likely outcome if the IFR had been called correctly in the first place.

Of course, this is all subject to the umpire's judgment. There isn't any set in stone remedy to fix this. The umpire should consider all elements of the play and how the players reacted to the "non-call" before deciding what the most likely outcome should have been if the initial call was correctly made.

[HugoTafurst]

Runners on 1st and 2nd this week in LV, one out with a pop up to third. No infield fly is called at all, ball is picked up and they fire to third and step on bag. Throw ball back to pitcher and runners then advanced. So you have bases loaded.

Im a little confused as how you have bases loaded and start asking how the heck is this not an infield fly.

Umps get together and talk about it, they leave runners at 2nd and 3rd and call out the batter. Im kind of like WTF is that. He says the runners can advance on their own risk and pops off to me "how long you been playing ball." He tells me they can call INF whenever they want. HUH????? You mean you can call INF after the play is over, after 15 secs of confusion, and after the blues get together to confer about thew play? Since no INF was ever called, our girls assumed the play was a simple force out at third base... but apparently the fact the no umpire actually called an infield fly seemed to not matter to them.

Im amazed at how much I continue to learn each week by some of these fine umpires.

Stupid a$$ fluckin umpires - they all should be lined up and shot....

It's enough to make one quit wasting time on the ball field...

[Iluvblue]

This was as simple a pop up as any infielder will ever have. She didnt even have to move... simple, no brainer IFF. No call is made. Ball is dropped and nthere was NEVER a call made. So by them failing to call IFF, that allows runners to advance on us, as the 3rd baseman picked up the ball and fired to 3rd for the assumed force out since NO UMPIRE actually called IFF.

So what the hell is the defense supposed to do? Get into the mind of the umpire and figure , "Hey, they are going to get together in 30 secs and get the call right, so we better run and tag that runner out that we though we just got out when we stepped on 3rd base because of the FRORCE that should have been in play as NO IFF WAS CALLED.

Anyone that tries to talk away that fuck up by the umpires tyhat allowed runners to advance on this play is just trying to explain away a a bad NO CALL and consequent screw up after they talked about it.

After that ball had been dropped had our infielder tagged out 2 runners no way these guys allows us 3 outs on that play.

Those runners should not have been allowed to go to 2nd and 3rd. No way, no how and no amount of talking by anyone can explain that in a way that makes sense.

How did the girl drop the ball? Like yo uhave never seen a Major League player drop a ball? She was 15 or 20 feet in front of the bag, so when she dropped it, she picked it up and (Lofte it, Walked it, Threw it, rolled it) put whatever word in their you want, it doesnt change the play as it happened.

[Iluvblue]

By the way, on Saturday we were playing in some serious wind and a ball was popped up to 2nd with runners on 1st and 2nd. The 2nd baseman was running towards RF the entire time and NEVER got even close to being under this ball and she had to catch the ball with her extended out away from her body and while still running. How is this possibly an infield fly. Her making that catch was never even close to a certainty.

[Iluvblue]

Maybe they can, but it is bush to do so. It is also very confusing, and directly counteracts the purpose and intent of IFF.



Bingo. The play was slow developing, after the ball was picked up and thrown to third, th eball was returned to pitcher. We have no call made by anyone yet, and the runner that was at 2nd on the pitch starts jogging off (remember, everyone is assuming we just got a force out at 3rd. Coach has her stop on 3rd and stay there. So now we have bases loaded, since the ball as dropped and thrown to third, no IFR was called, the runner at 1st assumes she is safe.

So I go out to talk to HP blue as once again NO CALL HAS BEEN made. Im figuring if no IFR, then the kid at 3rd is out as we rolled the ball very softly to third to get the force out if there is no IFF.

So a good 1-2 minutes after the play and the 2 blues confer, they come up with the IFR is applied and since that is the case, the runner that jogged to third gets to stay there.

WTF???, luckily this was a nothing game, but still the reason we have so many issues that just seem so simple to me. I mean this was nothing more than the most basic application of the IFR that you could imagine. basic, basic, stuff.