Expectations

[TNSoftballDad]

Don't you know you NEVER pull out the rulebook during a game??

Umm...obviously not.

Educate me and explain why that is.

[MTR]

I think this is an excellent point. But I've seen umpires, in my very short time in youth fastpitch, lose their cool when a coach simply questioned a call or ruling.

I didn't say it never happened, just wanted to make sure people understood the difference between perception and reality.

One that jumps immediately to mind came this past summer in an 8U rec league all-star game. There was a questionable call, our coach called time, and the umpire went berserk. Yelling, screaming, etc., before our coach did anything more than say "time."

There are so many things wrong with this it is unbelievable.

To start, a coach is not permitted to call time and if one started out of the dugout prior to the umpire granting time, I could understand a few choice words especially from what obviously seems to be an umpire with a lack of training.

Best part was, the ump was wrong. I know because I was holding the rulebook that said he was and he was shown the exact book, chapter, and verse so to speak. Worst part was, the call did not get reversed because the ump's arrogance took precedence over the rulebook.

When coaches (or players) start to attempt to show an umpire up, then I do think the umpire needs to take control and not allow that to happen.

Which is why you don't whip out a rule book especially during an argument with an umpire. That is often viewed as attempting to "show up" an umpire. Doing so often gets the person holding the book an early trip to the parking lot.

But when he is simply being questioned and the ump flies off the handle and wants to make sure everyone "respects his authoritah", that's a problem.

Well, not having witnessed or knowing what the play or call was, I'll take your word for it. What I think is ridiculous is that this all took place at an 8U all star game.

[umpinva]

Don't you know you NEVER pull out the rulebook during a game??

Umm...obviously not.

Educate me and explain why that is.

Many years ago I had a rulebook brought onto the field and the conversation went something like this:

Coach: (While waving the rulebook) Blue, that's horrible. You not only blew the call but screwed the rule too! I've got it right here in my rulebook.

Me: Coach, you're out here arguing a judgment call which is a violation of the rules. It's time for you to return to the dugout so play can play ball.

Coach: (Fumbles through several pages) It's right here, right here on page 42 take a look.

Me: (Taking the book) Where is it coach? Page 42? You sure it's page 42?

Coach: Yes, page 42, right at the top.

Me: Ok coach I'll take a look. I tore out page 42 and stuffed it into my pocket telling him that I was in the middle of a ball game and I'd read it afterwards and that if he did not return to the dugout so we could continue I would take further action.

Now that being said, times have changed. If approached properly I will go over a rule with a coach from the rulebook while on the field.

[Dad]

Umpinva, 1st love to hear that an ump wants to hear what coaches and parents expect of them. Some coaches and parents can learn from that.
If an umpire clearly misses a rule interpretation how do you convince them if they wont look in the book? I know better than to run on the field with it, but I have asked a blue to look at it some will some won’t.
I have had umps check a rule after a game, been told I was right or wrong the next day. Some blues know all the rules and will continue to call something wrong forever.
Finally if you don’t like a rule book that I as a volunteer paid for and you destroy it to humiliate me, is it O.K. for me to tear your patches off if I don’t like a call?

[TNSoftballDad]

Thanks, umpinva.

I should make it clear that we never brought the rulebook onto the field. I had it by the dugout and the umpire came over with our coach. We didn't shove it in his face or make a scene about it.

[Demonboy]

Thanks, umpinva.

I should make it clear that we never brought the rulebook onto the field. I had it by the dugout and the umpire came over with our coach. We didn't shove it in his face or make a scene about it.

TNS, keep in mind that baseball/softball umpiring is a much more ego driven form of officiating than say football (who's officials never escalate conflict or chirp back and forth). They have their own "styles", their own zones and it is a mortal sin to give the impression of showing them up. Understand this UP FRONT and you will fare much better. I've never gotten into it with an umpire because I make it a priority to know and understand the "unwritten rules" that are in place to placate the significant ego that's often involved.

Being polite and treating them with respect doesn't hurt either.

[umpinva]

Umpinva, 1st love to hear that an ump wants to hear what coaches and parents expect of them. Some coaches and parents can learn from that.
If an umpire clearly misses a rule interpretation how do you convince them if they wont look in the book? I know better than to run on the field with it, but I have asked a blue to look at it some will some won’t.
I have had umps check a rule after a game, been told I was right or wrong the next day. Some blues know all the rules and will continue to call something wrong forever.

I would suggest asking him/her to seek help on the rules interpretation from their partner.

Finally if you don’t like a rule book that I as a volunteer paid for and you destroy it to humiliate me, is it O.K. for me to tear your patches off if I don’t like a call?

As I mentioned earlier, the page tearing incident was many years ago. I had just started umpiring and was way too full of pi$$ and vinagar. Currently, if a coach were to approach me with a rule book open to the page/s of coach's interpretation question, we would review the rule together. I would also include my partner in this process.

[MTR]

If an umpire clearly misses a rule interpretation how do you convince them if they wont look in the book?

You don't, you protest the game. Stand by for the inevitable "but protests are not allowed". Response to that is, "then you do not have a complaint". You get what you pay for and that includes proper management of a league, tournament, etc.

I know better than to run on the field with it, but I have asked a blue to look at it some will some won’t.

The umpire has a game to officiate. Unless it is a special league/tournament/ground rule, the umpire should be able to work the game without a rule book. Okay, so I'm living in Paradise

Rule books are not like dictionaries where you go to a specific page and get an answer. Many rules do not stand alone and often a coach/parent only sees something which is close to supporting his position, but may not be the appropriate rule.

Then you have the, "you checked the book on his call, you have to check it on mine" rubbish. That does nothing more than create more tension and cause a game to get out of control. And yes, it does happen. Been there, done that and it can get really ugly for everyone.

I have had umps check a rule after a game, been told I was right or wrong the next day. Some blues know all the rules and will continue to call something wrong forever.

Huh? I hope there should have been some sort of emoticon after that last sentence. Or maybe you meant to type that they "believe" they know all the rules.

Finally if you don’t like a rule book that I as a volunteer paid for and you destroy it to humiliate me, is it O.K. for me to tear your patches off if I don’t like a call?

Then you should have used the rule book which came with your registration Don't worry, I would never touch your rule book. OTOH, you will never touch me without being arrested.

If you think your case is that strong, sell it to the umpire and try to persuade him to check the book. I wouldn't recommend it, but if the umpire is that unsure of himself, offer him a book. If he takes it, fine. If not, as stated before, protest the game.

[Dad]

As you can tell from my name, I don’t really coach anymore. I do help in a rec league. That’s more where these issues come from. I know and learned with time most umps and coaches are doing a good job. We don’t always see the good things and tend to focus on the bad. I guess my point is I like anyone who is open to discussion even if it is after the game.


And yes :

[Cannonball]

I noted a couple of comments on consistency and yes, it is nice to know what the ump is calling that day. The following is from this weekend's games.

2 pitchers one with a good rise and one with a good drop. I coach the one with the good drop.

2nd inning, I walk out to the ump as pitcher warm up and asked how my pitcher was missing? Umps response, she's entering the zone low at the knees and the ball is dropping. I ask, isn't that a strike? The ump says maybe so but the catcher isn't able to catch it there and so, it appears to everyone that the pitch is low. I again ask if it is at the knees. The ump says very calmly and I do appreciate the discussion, "Coach, you're not going to get that pitch today." I leave.

4th inning, ump strolls over. He starts the conversation about the difference on the riseball and the drop. He says that the other pitcher is entering the zone with borderline strikes at the waist. He says that he gets good looks at that pitch and so, it is a lot easier to call than the drop. Now, I haven't said anymore about strikes but have complimented my pitcher who continues to throw the drop. He suggest that we teach this young lady a better rise since most umps see it better than a very good drop OR AT LEAST, don't catch as many complaints. Having been approached, I asked if he didn't feel that he gave an advantage to the other team when both pitchers are throwing "borderline pitches." His statement was that he was consistent (and he was) and that knowing that, we should put in a riseball pitcher.

Thoughts? Oh, we won the game after the "International Tie-Breaker."