Last Time Bye Rules

[henryg]

Just curious is FP has the same rulings for "last time by" as baseball concerning baserunners. Example. Batter hits fly ball to right, R1 advances to and touches second and continues to third. R1 realizes that RF will catch the flyball and returns towards first without retouching second. RF drops flyball and R1 reverses course and touches second and ends up at third. In baseball the "last time by" would apply and R1 could not be called out on appeal for failing to retouch second when returning to first.

[ASAPAump]

I've never heard of the "last time by" rule for baseball, but in this case (for softball) all I have is a runner making a roundabout path to touch second. So, the runner is between 2B and 3B, retreats toward 1B without touching 2B, never touches 1B, then retouches 2B and moves on to 3B. Sounds like a scenic route to touching 2B again.

[Bretman]

"Last time by" isn't itself a baseball rule. It is a term used in the interpretation of how a runner can correct a baserunning mistake by touching a base missed going one way, yet touching it on the way back. So, there isn't an actual "last time by rule", but there is an official interpretation that uses this phrase to explain the rules about a runner missing a base.

While softball might use different terminology to explain this, the concept is exactly the same. In the play posted, the runner has corrected her baserunning mistake (missing second on the way to third) by touching second on the way back to first (essentially, her "last time by").

[GIMNEPIWO]

Why the heck is the runner half way to third on a fly ball that she thought the RF would catch?

Because she had the afternoon off from her 'day job' where she is leaping tall buildings in a single bound ...

[ASAPAump]

Bret, this had me thinking. In Fed rules, where, in a dead ball base award situation, if the runner would miss 2B in retreating from 3B, the ball goes out of play, and she touches on the award 1B before retouching 2B, the runner would still be out on appeal, correct?

Does this also apply for a live ball situation? If the runner, during a live ball, touches 1B after missing 2B on the retreat, can she still be out on appeal if she touches 2B again on her way to 3B?

I know this does not apply to ASA, since the rules allow for the runner to retouch without the "one base beyond" stipulation.

[Bretman]

Doesn't ASA have the same rule about a runner not returning to retouch a missed/left too soon base once they have advanced to the next awarded base? See 8-5-G (EFFECT).

Either way, that rule isn't an issue if the runner has retreated back past second base (ie: is between first and second) when the ball actually becomes dead. To be prevented from going back to correct a mistake, the runner would have to be on, or beyond, second base when the ball became dead.

For both of the plays you listed, I think that the runner has successfully corrected her baserunning mistake and cannot be called out on appeal.

[ASAPAump]

Doesn't ASA have the same rule about a runner not returning to retouch a missed/left too soon base once they have advanced to the next awarded base? See 8-5-G (EFFECT).

Either way, that rule isn't an issue if the runner has retreated back past second base (ie: is between first and second) when the ball actually becomes dead. To be prevented from going back to correct a mistake, the runner would have to be on, or beyond, second base when the ball became dead.

For both of the plays you listed, I think that the runner has successfully corrected her baserunning mistake and cannot be called out on appeal.

Were you talking about the OP? I'm kind of confused. How can the rule of "one base beyond" be applied if 2B was the base which she missed? Do you mean beyond 3B?

You're right,
ASA: 8.5.G: Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out:
When the ball is live and is overthrown or is blocked.
EFFECT: [snip] Runners must return to touch a base missed or a base left too soon. [snip] Once a base runner advances to the next awarded base, the runner may no longer return to touch any base missed or any base left too soon.

I was looking at the following EXCEPTIONS:
2. When the ball becomes dead, runners must return to touch a base missed or bases left too soon if they have advanced, touched, and are a base beyond the base missed or the base left too soon. Runners must be given the opportunity to complete their baserunning responsibilities.

Bold emphasis my own. Do these contradict each other?

NFHS has a similar EXCEPTION, but it says the opposite:
2. When the ball becomes dead, no runner may return to touch a base missed or a base left too soon if she has advanced, touched, and remains a base beyond the missed base or the base left too soon.