Shaved bats in HS play ??

[Tumblebug]

Wood is not a viable economic option below the highest levels. Do the research yourself, the math simply doesn't work on several levels. There is simply not enough good wood to sustain demand. It takes 50 years to grow a tree to build a few hundred bats. If all levels of diamond sports used exclusively wood there would be a conservative estimated demand of approximately 96 million bats per year. We'd run out of good wood in 5 years and the lead time on more would be 45 years. That doesn't account for all of the tree huggers that would reasonably protest the loss of life-sustaining forests to supply the initial demand. It doesn't work folks. Maybe we should make bats out of recycled newspaper . . .

And who as at fault there? And who is going to have the problem with it? Another great move and lack of foresight that will invite foreign supplies and competition.

Hey, look out, here come the foreign made bats. Japan is probably chomping at the bit. Mizuno is probably more than happy to think about wood bats in the US. May see Finland's Koho get back into the baseball/softball business.

The most effective wood for a bat is Northern White Ash. Everybody has to buy it from the US and Canada. Japan, or anybody else for that matter, is in no better situation than anybody else.

[Tumblebug]

Wood is not a viable economic option below the highest levels. .

Bamboo grows pretty dang quick. Bats are cheap and come with a 1 yr guarantee.
Of course some will say the bamboo bats are not on par with the high end hard wood bats but that is because of the current mindset that the young players need the same elite level of equipment as the colleges and pros.
If everyone swung the same bat the playing field would be just as equal as it is now with everyone swinging 300 sticks only the hitters would have to learn to hit.

The slower developing children will not be able to compete and be successful with much heavier bats. The game will see shrinking numbers as we lose them to the more accommodating team sports where they can experience early success. The organizing bodies will probably not want to alienate those kids and see that happen. At least that's what I hear when I sit in the industry meetings. The academics of this discussion are interesting but the economics don't support the rhetoric. I guess only time will tell.

[SBRules4Dummies]

interesting topic You guys know your stuff.

[MTR]

The most effective wood for a bat is Northern White Ash. Everybody has to buy it from the US and Canada. Japan, or anybody else for that matter, is in no better situation than anybody else.

The "most effective" wood does not mean it is the only wood. To the best of my knowledge, maple is becoming quite popular and Mizuno is touting a strong product called The Composite (?) for around $80.

Yes, the maple will shatter as opposed to the breaking and splintering of the ash, but from what I was told at the H&B factory in Louisville, the maple bat is more durable than the ash.

In today's world, you would think that they could develop a replacement process for a wood bat. And if you really want to point a finger, if the manufacturer thought with its big head and not done everything to skirt the bat restrictions, the game probably wouldn't be in this mess.

[dodgerblue]

Forget the wood bat(which is a dumb alternative by the way) Why not go back to cheap alumminum bats like the old 777 and that sort and seperate the real hitters from the cheaters.

[ssarge]

The "most effective" wood does not mean it is the only wood. To the best of my knowledge, maple is becoming quite popular and Mizuno is touting a strong product called The Composite (?) for around $80.

Maple IS becoming popular. But ased on the weight / size of the ball, and the number of balls I see making contact at the bat taper or below, I would estimate the typical hitter would break at LEAST 10 bats a year. Seriously, this isn't economically feasible, IMO. Instead of one team potentially sharing a couple of high-tech $300 bats, you would have a bat budget of thousands of dollars per season.

And I guess I'm not seeing what needs to be fixed. Bats today are less "hot" than 5 years ago. Balls are less hot. HR production in college still trails that of college BB. No one has / is coming CLOSE to the single season HR record (38). No one is coming close to the career HR record. Those hitters who ARE producing a lot of HRs almost invariably have good swing mechanics - ABSOLUTELY better than in the past. So that should be penalized? The oft-stated "she checked her swing and hit it out" really isn't all that common. But is nontheless easily explainable, because when the hands stop suddenly, the end of the bat whips. Same basic principle as hooking the hands inward to tighten the swing radius and whip the end of the bat. Worked for Aaron - about 755 times.


All that said - shaving a bat is a very bad thing. WIllful cheating at this level should be opunished extremely harshly - like a lifetime suspension. I'm not talking about the player whose bat tests at 98.2 for whatever reason. I am talking about players / teams whose bats have been altered in a machine shop.

And it DOES happen. I see / hear bats in college and high-level club play I am all but certain have been altered. That is NOT OK. But the answer is developing easy, field-based tests to remove suspect bats. And backing thoise up w/ full-on inspections in a lab when warranted, with harsh penalties for players and coaches found to be cheating. IMO, the answer is NOT to panic and making a huge change in bats which woud have profound unintended consequences.

Regards,

Scott

[ssarge]

Forget the wood bat(which is a dumb alternative by the way) Why not go back to cheap alumminum bats like the old 777 and that sort and seperate the real hitters from the cheaters.

I doubt that a move to single-wall aluminum bats would halt bat technology, or cheating. It would CHANGE those things, but not eliminate them. Misguided competitors will always look for an artificial incremental advantage, and people will always be there to help them cheat to find it. I truly think the only thing that has a CHANCE of curbing it (you'll never elimintate it) is severe sanctions.

But what you suggest is not a horrible idea if it is really felt that safety is an issue. Although I've seen no figures indicating that the game is less safe than in the past, and since the bats AND balls are less "hot" than in the past, I don't think those figures exist. But to some, ONE injury is too many, and I don;t say that disparagingly - I get it.

With a move to a bat legislated to perform like a 777, you'd get about 20-30 feet less carry for the elite hitters, and more than that for lesser hitters. The game would change dramatically, that's for sure. It would be much more of a short-game contest, as it was in the past. Power numbers would drop dramatically.

It would lose my interest as a spectator, for sure. But others no doubt would feel differently.

I think the long-term result would be that a lot fewer girls would want to play. No one ever had fun batting .180. And lacrosse and other sports are already making inroads on the rosters of high school and youth softball. So I believe the game would scale down a bit, in terms of participation. Again, some might see that as not a bad thing. But it WOULD happen.

The "unintended consequences" of major rules changes are always significant. Have to be considered.

Best regards,

Scott

[dodgerblue]

How hard is it to make a bat one solid piece with no end cap and no way of giving the cheaters access to the inside of the bat?

[ssarge]

Well, a solid piece of metal would weigh a LOT, but I assume you mean the inside would still be hollow, there just would be no way to access it?

Not hard at all.

But see my above post on unintended consequences. It would DRAMATICALLY change the game. And I think it is a pretty good game.

As a paid instructor, I think that legislation which forces hitters to adopt better mechanics to perform is a REALLY good thing.

That said, this move would DRAMATICALY change the game. Not something to do without a lot of consideration, IMO. I would instead advocate finding ways to catch the cheaters, and then ban them.

Best regards,

Scott

[MTR]

How can wood bats be a "dumb" alternative since that is the initial piece of equipment used in the game? Actually, it was aluminum which is the alternative.

Aluminum is fine, but that is where all this cheating in softball started. Even the term single-wall or double-wall were debatable and complete relied upon the manufacturer's honest marking. How's that worked for the game lately?

With all of today's scientific advancements, why can there not be a composite wood bat?

If you have noticed some of the debate, many believe wood isn't good because of performance, physical capabilities and mechanics. IOW, the players are not as capable as those who played 20-30 years ago with wood bats or even the early aluminum when the average bat was 34-38 ounces. Today, many players think 30 ounce bats are sledgehammers.

There are numerous wood-bat slowpitch tournaments and leagues and believe it or not, the players have a blast! Imagine that, bringing the game back to where it belongs and having fun doing it. Who would have thunk it?

Where is the problem in players learning to play the game instead of concentrating on out-purchasing/out-cheating the opponent?