Jury Idiocy Comes to Montana

[MoeFoes]

Here is the opposite.....

[MoeFoes]

Quit posting all this bat speed math crap. I want to see injury stats. You guys feed all this crap about pitcher safety. I want to see the numbers.
How many pitchers injured?
How many resulted in career ending injuries?

Bat speeds, ball exit speeds, pitching speeds, will always vary. How can you do a true study with different batters, size, strength, different swings, different contact points, different pitching speeds and movement. What kind of balls were used in the study? Pitching machine, Dudley's, Wilson, Dream seams, or Soft dot. How do you calculate a pitchers reaction time? I've seen girls finish with their glove down waiting for a ball to bounce off their forehead. If you are banking on bat companies making bats that are safe in case that the 1 in a millon chance that a ball is hit directly to the pitcher she will live. You have a better chance of hitting the lottery.......Wood bat companies wont give you that same gaurantee.....

[Tumblebug]

Quit posting all this bat speed math crap. I want to see injury stats. You guys feed all this crap about pitcher safety. I want to see the numbers.
How many pitchers injured?
How many resulted in career ending injuries?

Bat speeds, ball exit speeds, pitching speeds, will always vary. How can you do a true study with different batters, size, strength, different swings, different contact points, different pitching speeds and movement. What kind of balls were used in the study? Pitching machine, Dudley's, Wilson, Dream seams, or Soft dot. How do you calculate a pitchers reaction time? I've seen girls finish with their glove down waiting for a ball to bounce off their forehead. If you are banking on bat companies making bats that are safe in case that the 1 in a millon chance that a ball is hit directly to the pitcher she will live. You have a better chance of hitting the lottery.......Wood bat companies wont give you that same gaurantee.....

another voice of reason . . .

[Sparky Guy]

How do you calculate a pitchers reaction time?

I believe the correct term they used was APRT Available Pitcher Reaction Time. The way I interpret the figures they give are this. The pitcher delivers the ball and it takes X amount of time to travel to the hitter. Once the hitter strikes the ball it takes Y amount of time to return to the pitcher. If you add X & Y you have the AVAILABLE Pitcher Reaction Time. Not the pitcher's actual reaction time. I may be wrong, but that's they way I read it.

As a former pitcher's dad I would love to see them dial bat performance back to wood. There are just too many girls hitting home runs who shouldn't be. I doubt we'll ever see that, so what I do is train the pitchers I work with to recognize early when they've made a mistake with a pitch and prepare themselves for the possible missile coming back at them. I also make sure they finish in a position to defend themselves. After all that I do reaction drills with them as well. I do not make it mandatory, but I do give all my pitchers the option of wearing a mask if they want to. Most of them have taken to wearing one.

As a coach I can't eliminate all the risk that comes along with the pitching position, but I do try and equip my girls with the tools they need to defend themselves when they make a mistake. After that there isn't too much else we can do.

[Skarp]

Quit posting all this bat speed math crap.

Lol. If I were a woman I'd want to have your babies right now.

[Sam]

You are the one who is out of line, TB. You are flat out lying about what I have posted. You don't even read my posts....hell, you're asking questions about my DD's bats that I answered on page 2 of this thread, trying to prove that I'm the hypocrite I already admitted to being. I didn't disparage anything or anybody....you just don't like that somebody described your stake in the game. So, you whine about being attacked. Accept that you have the dog in the fight...we all do.

You don't know what my stake is. You can guess and you have but you are nothing but wrong. My stake is to offer the most competitive product possible within the safety and performance guidelines of the softball and baseball organizing bodies. That is my stake and any other assumptions you make to support your personal opinions are fabrications.

I do give a "rat's a$$" about the integrity game and the safety of the people that play it. I care very much. For you to suggest that I would compromise that for a buck is offensive. That is personal. You can crusade all you want but leave my thoughts, feelings and intentions out of your assumptions because there is no way for you to know them without me telling you what they are.

A) Anybody that has a brain and can think logically knows your stake in this argument. Any change to the standards costs you money. We understand that...its not personal...its a fact. Quit whining about it.


B) Allow me to quote from one of your previous posts so that we can guage exactly how much of a rat's a$$ you really care about our DDs' saety.

"I don't think there is a safety issue. That's where we disagree. Even if we didn't disagree in that, I don't have any responsibility for the measure of safety installed in the game. The organizing bodies dictate that by virtue of the rules. My job as a businessman is to build the most competitive product possible. "

Wow...you really care....that brings a tear to my eye.

[Skarp]

Sam,

I understand your points about safety here. Really, I do. But are you honestly arguing that bat manufacturers should substitute their subjective judgments re safety for those of the rule-making bodies in the sport...the entities that directly represent the interests of the participant base? I've asked this question several times, and you have failed to answer it, but the logic of your argument against TB, including the last post above, lead inexorably to that conclusion.

[Sam]

Sam,

I understand your points about safety here. Really, I do. But are you honestly arguing that bat manufacturers should substitute their subjective judgments re safety for those of the rule-making bodies in the sport...the entities that directly represent the interests of the participant base? I've asked this question several times, and you have failed to answer it, but the logic of your argument against TB, including the last post above, lead inexorably to that conclusion.

Skarp,

The BM's are actively attempting to make their products more dangerous than their competitors. I'm asking that they cease to do that and work with ASA to lower the standards to that of a wood bat. Its not that difficult, is it? TB wants to be viewed as a wonderful guy...and he probably is....but to claim that he has no financial stake in the argument and then to claim that he cares about the safety of the players AFTER he said he could care less....is a tad disingenuous.

[absdad]

I'd like to hear Tumblebug's take on this, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

I don't think it really matters what the sanctioning bodies mandate, it costs him (bat mfgr's) probably the same to make a bat hotter (market demand), or tone it down (limits). I'm sure there is some R&D involved, but probably less to to cool them down since they could possibly revert to some previous designs?

I think this whole issue falls in the lap of the sanctioning bodies. The manufacturers are making bats that are legal to the mandates, and that the public wants. They want to sell their bats, that's what business is btw. To do so, they have to play by the rules (limits). They're not doing anything wrong, immoral, unethical, or whatever. If one dd's dad is on a crusade, I'll bet they'll (sanctioning bodies) tell him to buy a mask. Not a bad idea really. It would take hundreds to petition them to make some changes, if they would at all. I personally am not against them cooling the bats off. But i'm not convinced it's necessary at this point.

[Skarp]

The BM's are actively attempting to make their products more dangerous than their competitors. I'm asking that they cease to do that and work with ASA to lower the standards to that of a wood bat. Its not that difficult, is it? TB wants to be viewed as a wonderful guy...and he probably is....but to claim that he has no financial stake in the argument and then to claim that he cares about the safety of the players AFTER he said he could care less....is a tad disingenuous.

I think your argument assumes what it needs to prove...namely that current standards are too dangerous. Making bats that perform to the edge of performance limits, without crossing them, is only "actively trying to make...products more dangerous" if the assumption that current standards are overly dangerous is granted. And the problem with that claim is that danger itself is a subjective concept. The standards are only too dangerous if the participants, as represented by the sport's governing bodies, consider them to be so. The manufacturers have no business substituting their subjective perceptions for those of the participants.

Should bat manufacturers stop making high-performance bats altogether, thereby denying adult softball leagues and the like their use? If not, how is it their responsibility if fastpitch leagues allow the use of such bats? But more importantly, why should I and 50,000 of my closest friends be denied the right to allow our kids to compete with those bats if we personally believe them to be safe enough?

I understand your effort to lobby popular opinion re safety. It's a legitimate position and a legitimate voice in the process. But the process involves the Associations and their player bases, not the manufacturers in business to satisfy the demands for equipment conforming with the rules that ultimately come out of that process.

IMO.