state of your HS fields

[Coach11]

6to4to3.....who is the arbitrator in these cases that determines what warrants further investigation and what doesn't....as well as what requires action to be taken and what does not? The lawyers for the Dept of Ed? And do they take into account existing circumstances, or do they "rule" that it either is or isn't a violation of Title IX?

As for speaking to my daughter about how she feels.....I have.

As mentioned earlier in the discussion, the girls varsity softball field here in town, would be considered better than the boys varsity baseball diamond. The one caveat, the softball field has a grass infield. Several years ago, I asked my daughter her feelings on the matter as most of the other local HS softball fields are skinned, as are all of the TB fields she's played on. She told me that she didn't like it, but that it didn't really matter to her because she was used to it. She grew up playing on the field. She completely understands that at this point and time, the community needs and uses the field for both softball and baseball at the younger age groups. She also recognized that it gave her school somewhat of an advantage during home games, because the other schools weren't used to playing on a grass infield.

Pretty level headed response from a (at the time) 14 YO girl. Wish she reacted similarly when I mentioned that I thought her prom dress was kinda short.

[ICMTM]

The HS my daughter goes to I see the baseball boys do their own field maintenance. Their fields are in good shape. I have seen the boys pulling weeds, raking, etc. on several occasions. Both varsity diamonds have fences and operating scoreboards. The baseball team seems to have some sort of a booster program as they have a relatively new tunnel adjacent to their field. The softball program does not, and doesn't do much to raise funds to grow their program. It doesn't appear that the district is allocating money to either program. It's just a solution to ask a 16 y/o boy to mow a lawn.

In all the nice fields I have played at in high school the teams who did their own field maintenance had the best fields. Where my daughter practices ASA the softball field is in equal or better shape than the baseball field.

My experience as a player the school didn't have baseball fields. They were in the adjacent park whereas the softball diamonds were on campus.

[jtat32]

I may be stating the obvious here, but I don't think that inequities between the softball and baseball fields necessarily means that a school is non-compliant with Title IX. The school's athletic programs must offer equal opportunity to participate, but that doesn't mean that the boys' and girls' facilities for comparable sports need to be equal. The schools in question may indeed spend the same amount on girls' sports as boys' sports, but other girls' programs, such as volleyball and field hockey, are getting a larger portion of that funding.

[ICMTM]

Football stadiums in a lot of places have all weather fields, a decent concession stand, restrooms, gates, and are rented for use other than high school needs. Soccer usually plays on these fields as well. Basketball uses the same court for girls and boys. Tennis uses the same court. Golf uses the same course. Swimming uses the same pool. Track uses the same track. Volleyball shares with basketball.

Girls fastpitch stands alone as they do not share a facility. Often times since the structures were built at the same time they are equitable at the time they are constructed. Where I see the difference is people/groups add onto the structures for their use or liking.

The other thing I see is baseball diamonds are used by other non profits (ie Little League, Pony, Babe Ruth) and they contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of a baseball facility. Girls fastpitch does not have those alliances and except the schools with great facilities no ASA team is using the diamonds after Memorial Day so they go dormant. When January comes around it's too late to maintain the field to what we on the board would consider accepted.

[triplecrown]

In the area of concern, there was nearly $300,000 on the table to be used to "improve" one of the facilities. That money was taken away after meeting being held to determine how the improvements were to be made, the facilities director pulled the plug as NOT ONE person showed up from site at the closed door meeting. So that money was pulled even after a last ditch "demand", to not just improve facility but demand a brand new facility and triple the price tag to nearly $900,000, district said, aint gonna happen, and the $300,000 was taken away and will be used to help budget a football stadium at another site, according to local newspaper.

The district in question is in dire straits financially (like many others), and Title IX is a very valid resource BUT, the district has said that there are several options if this legal battle is pursued, not ONE of which is providing softball fields, that they guarantee....



1- Eliminate all fences/scoreboards/dugouts/cages from current softball/baseball programs

2- Eliminate baseball/softball programs entirely

3- Eliminate ALL non-revenue generating sports in district and all stipends(which means ALL but football), and females are welcome and have played football in district...

4- Eliminate ALL sports ALL stipends, and rent facilities to outside club/youth/adult leagues/teams

So go ahead and pick your poison!

[Iluvblue]

There have been districts that have tried to do exactly what you have stated, and the courts stepped in real fast and basically told the districts that they could NOT bring the state of the boys DOWN to the level of the girls, but were REQUIRED to bring the level of the girls UP.


And unless you are part of the higher ups in this district, i am not sure how you could possibly know what they plan on doing, but I can PROMISE you that this is not going away. This district has gotten away with treating the girls like second class citizens for years, and now it is somehow a bad thing that we are trying to get them to do what they are legally required to do.

Eliminate all Softball from their district?? hahhaha, yeah, let see that.

No matter what happens, this district has been in this situation long before they were in "Dire straights" financially and should have taken care of this long ago. So now they want to get pissy and make it like it is someone else fault that they have dropped the ball for 25 years in this area.

I would love to see them try to drop all sports except football......... that would be an interesting scenario, and one that this district would ultimately spend more money then they would if they just did what they need to do, and bring the girls fields up to where they should be.


So if you are from the district,..... THIS AINT GOING AWAY...

[Oufan22]

Well at our local hs the girls field was in far better shape than the boys at the start of the year. So was they're account. Boys were in the hole. No one thought about taking from the girls? They actually held fundraisers. Silly isn't.. Boys had no $ no pitching machine, hell their mower wouldn't work and the school wouldn't fix it!! I'm proud to say they have a state of pitching machine and are of the hole. Oh by the way they did it themselves.. I bet coach Davis did it the same way at your school? Instead of wanting the school to bring your field up to what the boys worked for why not have your girls do some work fundraising? Before you save the world why not start with your team and your field? Just saying

[Iluvblue]

Im going to quote from an earlier post. Some of you shoud read carefully.


the overwhelming and repetitive theme of this thread is ignorance. don't take that to mean anything other than what that word means, not knowing. Do yourself a favor and do some reading and learn what is going on here. It wasn't that long ago that women couldn't vote and blacks couldn't eat where whites ate. Someone noticed that that was wrong and started a fight for equality, which is still working it's way out today.

Hell, take your opinion out of it. If your daughter is old enough to understand some of this talk to her about the facts and ask her opinion. Ask her mother, your Grandmother, your Mom... My gut tells me they will have a fairly strong opinion one way or the other. Then you have taught your daughter a valuable lesson on determining her opinion and moving to action (if need be) based on the facts and only after determining what those facts are. Facts without opinions!




Facts without opinions.... Silly, isnt it OUFan? Just Sayin

By the way, you think coach Davis held car washes to pay for the entire fencing structure and dugouts at Johansen?(for 2 fields?? Yeah, and I got some swamp to sell you in Florida) Just sayin Oufan......

[Oufan22]

So edumacate me blue.. What have you as a team done to your field? Do you and your teams fundraise and or look for donations?

[Iluvblue]

Ok OU Fan.

First off, I have no kids in HS at the present time, so when you ask what have I dont for "My" fields, there is no MY FIELDS. I dont coach HS anymore.

2nd This is not my opinion, so the sooner you can take your views of myself out of the equation, the easier this will be. The courts have ruled that the girls do not have the same system in place(50 years of alumni) to support their programs like the boys.

Raised money (Booster or fundraising) money goes into the school. Once the school accepts the money it basically goes into the general fund, meaning it is the schools responsibility to use for ALL sports.

So when a former HS player that is now a major league baseball player donates 50k to upgrade the boys fields.... how is it possible the girls will EVER have a rich former player donating that kind of cash? so, once again, the school accepts the money knowing full well they better upgrade girls facilities as well as the boys if they want to accept ANY money.

All you need to do is go back and read one of my first few posts in this thread. Im quoting from the courts, not giving my opinion. What I think, or what you think on this matter is IRRELEVANT.


But like one of my professors once told me, you educate yourself. So if you really want to understand this issue, and take your own opinion out of it, just do a google search on Title IX and softball and do some reading.

Or better yet, someone already posted a few links earlier in this thread, go read those and you will have a better understanding of what is happening instead of tying me into the equation.

By the way. NOBODY has ever suggested taking away from the boys, in fact the courts have already stepped in when a district tried to do just that. The courts ruled that the district could not bring the boys down to the level of the girls to make them all "Equal," but the district was forced to bring the girls up. So what was posted by triplecrown earlier may be the approach this district wants to take, but it would be ill advised.

Once again, this is not MY OPINION, this is case law.