NorCal
Hitting: tip & myth of the week
Congrats on at least being honest on your experience. As for the "lil girls parents" and player for that matter, they must have been OK with her playing up and her the same otherwise she wouldn't have gone to the tryout, or accepted a position on that team. As for playing time, how do you know that she is not a starter? Or that she wont receive the "playing time" she needs. As long as the coach is upfront with them, no reason for complaints. If what you say is true and there were 15+ at this practice, if they are not happy with where she is at-she would leave. Aparently she didn't, so they must be happy. As for the "sour grapes" comment, you must have been to even make the post. Utherwise, you would have had no reason to make such a comment and post it. As parents we all make decissions based on the best for our daughters. What works for one may not work for another. If we parents believe our DD will be better off over here, that's what we do. So have you, because your DD is not where she started off. So you did what you thought was best for her. Nobody has to "answere" to anyone other that themselfs and the decissions they make. If they believe in the Coach and his/her coaching style, philosophy and his/her character, then they will perform at a high level and get the attention that is deserved (college).
- Cheeto
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:07 pm
i like that you think im talk about someone in particular i was just watching a practice ( so could learn) and i seen about six girls that could be playing down and couldnt get the bunt down thats all i was saying, i dont want ANYONE thinking im talking about their daughter dont need another email writen about me. lmfao it was a great email by the way
- style
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:18 pm
I have no idea about who you are talking about, I'm talking about the "player" you spoke of on your post. Learning is a good thing, but then to blast the player and/or coach for trying to get it right is amazing. We all must be carefull, because our comments or views always seem to come back and bite us on the a_s!
- Cheeto
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:07 pm
style wrote:thats very true rbi i just watched some player at practice that are playing UP cause they are so good, the coach was trying to teach them how to bunt. imo they should probably stay down and learn the proper way!
Clarify. 10's playing 12's.. 12's playing 14's... Last time I checked, high school ball should be getting ready in next couple months. And true 14's are freshmen in high school. That's usually why spring for 14's is so...weak. Many true 14's do play up 16's or 18's. My dd plays 18's and their coach works in ALL aspects of game, yes even bunting. So if you were just really watching and not involved with team or coaching, your assuming a lot!
- bring'nheat
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:08 am
Relax people. Comments made on these boards are normally general statements and not about anyone's kid. So dont get so defensive.
I am personally not for kids playing up, for almost any reason until they have played 2 years in 14u. But I dont get to decide what people will do. I am amazed though at the number of parents that have just gotten into this game that will not listen to experienced people around them.
Ever notice the coaches that are telling people that their kid is so good they should not play in their own age group are the coaches that need said player to move up to their teams cause the team is weak and in need of good younger players???
I had 4 different people tell me this past tryout round that they wanted their kid playing up when I said she should stay down... thus they went somewhere else. I had a girl on my 14u team the past 2 years that I think is as good as ANY outfielder in NORCAL in ANY age group and she did not play up last Summer... she played 14u, which was her 2nd year in 14u.
I think the positives far outweigh the negatives to staying down.
What about exposure you say, she is hurting herself by not playing up. Well while we were at our last tourney in Socal I had coaches from both Washington and Tennessee introduce themselves to me as they were there to watch this kid.
I think in FAR too many cases it isnt what is best for the player as far as development, playing time, or even the level of the team, but it is about PARENT EGO.
Reasons to stay down. This is obviously just my opinion.
1) Confidence.... confidence is everything in this game, and dominating at her age division will help confidence far more than being avg playing up.
2) Development...... hard to develop skills if playing up and most older teams have 15+ players which means PT goes down. Exposure tourneys lack competitive fire that hurts development in my opinion.
3) Costs..... fees in the 900 dollar range with minimal travel vs 1500 dollar fees and another 4k in travel.
4)Coaching... if you know by playing up the coaching is far superior to what your kid would get by staying down, then move up. If it is the other way around, this is a simple decision.
Playing on a top notch 14u team will do far more for the player than playing on an avg 16 or 18u team. Our 14u team last year beat some 18u teams that were supposed to be good. I had an 18u coach come to me before our game against a particular 18u team from Nevada to give me the scouting report on their team. He told me how good they were and we should be careful with their first 5 hitters.
WE won that game 11-2, and we were 14u. So much for playing up and getting more out of it.
Talented p[layers should try to get surrounded by talented players, get pushed by coaches to be better, and WIN games. That is the best of everything, and that can be done in youngers ages much easier than in the olders for a young player.
In the end it is each parents decision to make, it is their kid. That is why I dont get all pissy when someone leaves my team. It is their kid, their decision. But nobody at HB should get pissy when others dont agree with ones decision to move up. Who cares what someone else thinks. It is just opinions, which is why we all come to HB anyways.... isnt it??
I am personally not for kids playing up, for almost any reason until they have played 2 years in 14u. But I dont get to decide what people will do. I am amazed though at the number of parents that have just gotten into this game that will not listen to experienced people around them.
Ever notice the coaches that are telling people that their kid is so good they should not play in their own age group are the coaches that need said player to move up to their teams cause the team is weak and in need of good younger players???
I had 4 different people tell me this past tryout round that they wanted their kid playing up when I said she should stay down... thus they went somewhere else. I had a girl on my 14u team the past 2 years that I think is as good as ANY outfielder in NORCAL in ANY age group and she did not play up last Summer... she played 14u, which was her 2nd year in 14u.
I think the positives far outweigh the negatives to staying down.
What about exposure you say, she is hurting herself by not playing up. Well while we were at our last tourney in Socal I had coaches from both Washington and Tennessee introduce themselves to me as they were there to watch this kid.
I think in FAR too many cases it isnt what is best for the player as far as development, playing time, or even the level of the team, but it is about PARENT EGO.
Reasons to stay down. This is obviously just my opinion.
1) Confidence.... confidence is everything in this game, and dominating at her age division will help confidence far more than being avg playing up.
2) Development...... hard to develop skills if playing up and most older teams have 15+ players which means PT goes down. Exposure tourneys lack competitive fire that hurts development in my opinion.
3) Costs..... fees in the 900 dollar range with minimal travel vs 1500 dollar fees and another 4k in travel.
4)Coaching... if you know by playing up the coaching is far superior to what your kid would get by staying down, then move up. If it is the other way around, this is a simple decision.
Playing on a top notch 14u team will do far more for the player than playing on an avg 16 or 18u team. Our 14u team last year beat some 18u teams that were supposed to be good. I had an 18u coach come to me before our game against a particular 18u team from Nevada to give me the scouting report on their team. He told me how good they were and we should be careful with their first 5 hitters.
WE won that game 11-2, and we were 14u. So much for playing up and getting more out of it.
Talented p[layers should try to get surrounded by talented players, get pushed by coaches to be better, and WIN games. That is the best of everything, and that can be done in youngers ages much easier than in the olders for a young player.
In the end it is each parents decision to make, it is their kid. That is why I dont get all pissy when someone leaves my team. It is their kid, their decision. But nobody at HB should get pissy when others dont agree with ones decision to move up. Who cares what someone else thinks. It is just opinions, which is why we all come to HB anyways.... isnt it??
- Iluvblue
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:05 pm
Heyall wrote:Okay - slow time of year and it's not rotineal so what the heck - this is as good as any for discussion purposes
Remembering I agree with you, (and purely for the sake of argument) if one were to adjust the swing so that the rolling wrists actually brought the bat to the proper point of contact, in a swing if one were to roll the wrists is one actually engaging additional muscles in the lower forearm which would accelerate the bat-head somewhat? To "roll" the wrists, is the top wrist not "cocking" rather than changing the direction? In doing so, is that accelerating rather than decelerating the bat?
I'm sure ssarge will pop in here at some point with a much better and ridiculously thorough and elegant version of what I'm suggesting but in the meantime, I can see both sides of the argument and I have never taught the wrist roll.
Still though...
Ok Devil's advocate, (just playing along, I realize we agree)
To do what you're suggesting you would have contort your body, which would slow your swing down any way. I will admit its possible to roll your wrists and still hit the ball squarely. But most hitters want the most bat speed possible. Another issue is to roll at contact means the hitter is most likely extended at the same time. Reaching extension too early will slow them down also. ie casting. Remember, most of our power comes from our core and rotation. So when our hands move away from our body too soon it works against or slows down the rotation of our body.
You mentioned using additional muscles. They are already engaging their forearms so it seems to me they would only be adding more use of their wrists. When swinging properly with palm up/palm down mechanics, they're using the bigger stronger arm muscles properly.
The proper use of the wrists can add some acceleration to your bat speed. This is accomplished with the proper hand path, inside the ball, barrel above the hands. The hand path being close to the body and taking the proper angle to the ball. Some call it 'knob to the ball'. Others call it short to the ball. The key is keeping the barrel close to your shoulder until the hands get closer to the front of your body. This actually cocks the wrists and adds acceleration when the barrel is released. As opposed to laying the barrel down behind you or casting it out away from you too soon. Good extension out front is the goal.
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MrHittingCoach - Posts: 43
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:56 pm
- Location: Modesto, CA
So, what's the best drill to make sure wrists aren't rolled prematurely?
- EzOut.EzOut
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:07 pm
OK, the guru of morality has entered his thoughts. "Parents ego"?? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?! Would be that "Style" is one of your coaches and he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, would it? If you make a post on HB, be prepared to be questioned, the same as you and I (ILB). Once again, you skirted over the main issue of Style's post and my response to it. And congrats to "YOU" for beating and 18's team. Everytime you post your exceptionalism, you reaffirm my thoughts on your "EGO". I'm glad to hear that you will "never" have a player play UP. That all your players will play age specific. That is very comforting to know. So, if you don't believe in "playing up", why do you have your teams "play up" in tournaments? If they "are not ready" or shouldn't play up (which is what you stated you believe), what is your justification for this? I can't wait to get your response. "pretty please"!!
- Cheeto
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:07 pm
If you talk to ANY well respected college coach they will flat out tell you that by your Sophomore year (regardless of your age), if you plan on playing high level D-1 softball you better get on a 18 Gold team that plays the best. They want you facing the best pitching at the highest level, and not just hitting off 14U/16U pitching. You will be facing girls that you will see later on in college and not so in "awe" when you do. Confidence is one thing you bet, but they also want to see how you handle failure, as you wont be hitting .600 off the best in 18G or D-1. If you continue to play down you will be in for a rude awakening if you plan on playing at a top 20 softball school. Not my opinion but what I have been told by MANY.....
- rbi
- Premium Member
- Posts: 565
- Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:30 pm
OK, the guru of morality has entered his thoughts.
So why do you need to be a sarcastic ass?? And trust me, I dont try to put down my views of "Morality" on anyone.... ever. But when it comes to my teams and what is best for MY TEAMS, hell yes, it is my views that trump all others.
As far as what is best for some kid to do, what part of my post dont you understand. Parents will always do what they feel is best..... so good for them, go for it. As someone who is in charge of making decisions, I do what is best for me and my teams with no regard for one individual player. I have no hard feelings to anyone that chooses to move their kid up... it is their choice. No big deal really.
So please if you are going to comment on my posts, at least be able to comprehend what I write. Did I say that no player in my program will ever be allowed to play up? When you use quotation marks, that means you are directly quoting someone. You used quotation marks around the word "NEVER," so please go back into my post and find where that word is used.
Where did I say that my kids will always play age specific? 4 years ago my 1st year 14u team won 49 games in a row in the middle of the summer. The next year, as a 2nd year 14u team, we moved up to play 16u. Not because I wanted to, not because I have an ego, but because for that team, staying down served no purpose. But again, please go back and QUOTE me correctly where I said that my players or teams will ALWAYS play according to their age.... pretty please (sarcasm intended)
You are sarcastic in congratulating us for playing up and beating some 18u team, what you dont understand for me is that it is no big deal. If a team is good, it makes no difference what age a team is. The 14u SJ Sting was better than probably ANY 18u team in Norcal last year (not gold, just 18u), so playing up or not doesnt really matter. If a team/player is good... they are good, no matter the age. I dont get hung up on what age level we are playing, I dont even know the year differences for the 14u age division. For me it is you are either a 14u or not a 14u. Not a 1st year or 2nd year 14u.
I always laugh when some parent of a kid that has played up and then lost comes over and say, yeah, but we are playing up. So for playing up, we did pretty well.
Who gives a rats ass if you played up. You either did well or you didnt, regardless of wether or not you "Play up." The weekend my 14u team played 18u, I told those girls that I expected them to win every game in that tournament. Playing up made no difference to me. My attitude isnt well it is ok if we get whipped..... remember we are playing up. And as I thought, they damn near did win every game.... because they were good. And like I said, age is just a number on a softball field. Then we drop down in 14u, and play some damn good teams that we couldn't beat. So it isnt the age you play, it is who you play with, and who you play against that matters. So when we decide to move a team up in an age division, it is because we look at who is in a tournament and see if it makes any sense for us to play in that age. If the teams are good, we stay in our own age, if the teams have no shot at beating us, we may decide to move up. I make decisions on what I feel is best for the particular team. So is that clear enough for you??
Ego... You can call it ego, I call it confidence, whatever you want to call it makes no difference.
The difference though, is that I have something to base that confidence on. Most parents moving their little superstar up have no experience. They just think little Suzie is the best thing to ever come out of an area, so she needs to play up because the other kids in her age suck and cant compete with their little star. Ok, whatever floats your boat... move the kid up.
But I have seen time and time again the "Next best thing" move up and never fully develop as she should because she played up and was on an avg team, instead of staying down, playing for a kick ass team and developing. You dont think Waljasper could be playing 18g right now???? But she plays 16u, and her team is amazing.
Coach getting hand caught i the cookie jar???? Dont know what the heck you are talking about. And what issue did I skirt over?? If you feel I was avoiding some topic, I will gladly cover what you want me to cover. I am not shy.
Oh, and no matter what you think of me and my posts, at least I have the conviction to write what I believe in this forum and do so with you knowing exactly who I am. But you will get on here, criticize me and what I do, and hide behind your false little name like so many others.
This board is nothing more than people giving opinions. Everything I write on here is my opinions on softball issues. I dont write about any specific players or parents. But apparently, you get awful defensive of my comments. I have a feeling I may know who you are and my comments hit a little too close to home for you.
Like I tell my students when they get into trouble. If what I am saying doesnt apply to you, let my words go in one ear and out the other. If what I say bothers you.... maybe there is a reason???
So why do you need to be a sarcastic ass?? And trust me, I dont try to put down my views of "Morality" on anyone.... ever. But when it comes to my teams and what is best for MY TEAMS, hell yes, it is my views that trump all others.
As far as what is best for some kid to do, what part of my post dont you understand. Parents will always do what they feel is best..... so good for them, go for it. As someone who is in charge of making decisions, I do what is best for me and my teams with no regard for one individual player. I have no hard feelings to anyone that chooses to move their kid up... it is their choice. No big deal really.
So please if you are going to comment on my posts, at least be able to comprehend what I write. Did I say that no player in my program will ever be allowed to play up? When you use quotation marks, that means you are directly quoting someone. You used quotation marks around the word "NEVER," so please go back into my post and find where that word is used.
Where did I say that my kids will always play age specific? 4 years ago my 1st year 14u team won 49 games in a row in the middle of the summer. The next year, as a 2nd year 14u team, we moved up to play 16u. Not because I wanted to, not because I have an ego, but because for that team, staying down served no purpose. But again, please go back and QUOTE me correctly where I said that my players or teams will ALWAYS play according to their age.... pretty please (sarcasm intended)
You are sarcastic in congratulating us for playing up and beating some 18u team, what you dont understand for me is that it is no big deal. If a team is good, it makes no difference what age a team is. The 14u SJ Sting was better than probably ANY 18u team in Norcal last year (not gold, just 18u), so playing up or not doesnt really matter. If a team/player is good... they are good, no matter the age. I dont get hung up on what age level we are playing, I dont even know the year differences for the 14u age division. For me it is you are either a 14u or not a 14u. Not a 1st year or 2nd year 14u.
I always laugh when some parent of a kid that has played up and then lost comes over and say, yeah, but we are playing up. So for playing up, we did pretty well.
Who gives a rats ass if you played up. You either did well or you didnt, regardless of wether or not you "Play up." The weekend my 14u team played 18u, I told those girls that I expected them to win every game in that tournament. Playing up made no difference to me. My attitude isnt well it is ok if we get whipped..... remember we are playing up. And as I thought, they damn near did win every game.... because they were good. And like I said, age is just a number on a softball field. Then we drop down in 14u, and play some damn good teams that we couldn't beat. So it isnt the age you play, it is who you play with, and who you play against that matters. So when we decide to move a team up in an age division, it is because we look at who is in a tournament and see if it makes any sense for us to play in that age. If the teams are good, we stay in our own age, if the teams have no shot at beating us, we may decide to move up. I make decisions on what I feel is best for the particular team. So is that clear enough for you??
Ego... You can call it ego, I call it confidence, whatever you want to call it makes no difference.
The difference though, is that I have something to base that confidence on. Most parents moving their little superstar up have no experience. They just think little Suzie is the best thing to ever come out of an area, so she needs to play up because the other kids in her age suck and cant compete with their little star. Ok, whatever floats your boat... move the kid up.
But I have seen time and time again the "Next best thing" move up and never fully develop as she should because she played up and was on an avg team, instead of staying down, playing for a kick ass team and developing. You dont think Waljasper could be playing 18g right now???? But she plays 16u, and her team is amazing.
Coach getting hand caught i the cookie jar???? Dont know what the heck you are talking about. And what issue did I skirt over?? If you feel I was avoiding some topic, I will gladly cover what you want me to cover. I am not shy.
Oh, and no matter what you think of me and my posts, at least I have the conviction to write what I believe in this forum and do so with you knowing exactly who I am. But you will get on here, criticize me and what I do, and hide behind your false little name like so many others.
This board is nothing more than people giving opinions. Everything I write on here is my opinions on softball issues. I dont write about any specific players or parents. But apparently, you get awful defensive of my comments. I have a feeling I may know who you are and my comments hit a little too close to home for you.
Like I tell my students when they get into trouble. If what I am saying doesnt apply to you, let my words go in one ear and out the other. If what I say bothers you.... maybe there is a reason???
- Iluvblue
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:05 pm
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